Page 2 | Just wandering...

SweetTooth2 · 2023-05-22T14:00:15+00:00

What is it about H&M and/or the royals, that gets people so angry and worked up? People being pretty hostile to each other on the royal threads these days? There seem to be quite fierce emotions in defence of H&M and also attacking them. What's it all about do you think? Why all the hostility on these boards on either side? (Obviously loads of people not being hostile. I fully acknowledge that! Just wondering why ^some^ posters have so much emotion for or against, and why the hostility to those with differing opinions. What is being ignited or triggered in people?)

derxa · 22/05/2023 18:32

ilovepuppies2019 · 22/05/2023 18:21

Interesting one OP! I think it's because H&M raise questions of values and intense feelings. Some feel that she has been bullied and that the bullying has been racist (true, some of it clearly was). Watching some one being racially attacked is very intense, emotive and hurtful but I expect that this is amplified for people of colour or people from minority communities. This brings emotive posts. Others see that the couple have hidden behind these hugely important issues to push forward an agenda based in victimhood. This leads to clashing posts where some posters are horrified at the racism and other posters deny this and point out other factors influencing behaviour. Denial of racism (from the perspective of some posters) is extremely upsetting and leads to claims of racist posts. Being accused of racism is extremely upsetting and leads to heated denials. This goes on a downward spiral with all posters angry and offended. Names are remembered and this is carried forward to future threads.

Aside from racism, they also raise questions of financial entitlement in an era where many are struggling. It also emotional to many to feel that PH lived and served the UK and saw it's best qualities, but was easily convinced that the people of the US were better. That's not to say that he genuinely felt like this or that there is any sense to this, but choosing to leave a country and live in another inevitably raises feelings of what was wrong and what does one place have that another does not.

Excellent post. People seem to forget that this is entertainment site.

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 18:42

Yes, there have been posters who have said e.g. they believe and support Meghan because their own in-laws were racist, or that they support Meghan because they are also a POC. Even posters who point out they are also POC and don't support Meghan got told they are racist, that they have internalised racism etc

I think for some people (on both sides) it became a matter of belief rather than weighing up what was known publicly, thinking critically about sources, and taking it all with a large pinch of salt! And thinking that in most cases there are faults on both sides.

Haywirecity · 22/05/2023 18:54

It's a lovely day for being out, op. Where are you wandering to? 🙃

Maireas · 22/05/2023 18:55

Indeed, @mixedrecycling . The accusations of racism were very tricky, was there genuine concern or was it used to shut down arguments? That was when poc were accused of internalised racism. Meghan became a sort of social lightening rod: racism, misogyny, hierarchy, privilege and celebrity all part of it. How will it play out? Who knows.

Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:33

Cowparslee · 22/05/2023 17:39

As a follower of the Mumsnet RF page over the years I've noticed 2 or 3 posters who are determined to shut down all criticism of Harry and Meghan at any cost, resulting in quite a toxic dynamic.

Their favorite tactic seems to be to equate or dismiss any criticism of Meghan as racism, it's very strange

I've noticed this

OP posts:

Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:38

ilovepuppies2019 · 22/05/2023 18:21

Interesting one OP! I think it's because H&M raise questions of values and intense feelings. Some feel that she has been bullied and that the bullying has been racist (true, some of it clearly was). Watching some one being racially attacked is very intense, emotive and hurtful but I expect that this is amplified for people of colour or people from minority communities. This brings emotive posts. Others see that the couple have hidden behind these hugely important issues to push forward an agenda based in victimhood. This leads to clashing posts where some posters are horrified at the racism and other posters deny this and point out other factors influencing behaviour. Denial of racism (from the perspective of some posters) is extremely upsetting and leads to claims of racist posts. Being accused of racism is extremely upsetting and leads to heated denials. This goes on a downward spiral with all posters angry and offended. Names are remembered and this is carried forward to future threads.

Aside from racism, they also raise questions of financial entitlement in an era where many are struggling. It also emotional to many to feel that PH lived and served the UK and saw it's best qualities, but was easily convinced that the people of the US were better. That's not to say that he genuinely felt like this or that there is any sense to this, but choosing to leave a country and live in another inevitably raises feelings of what was wrong and what does one place have that another does not.

Yes I think you r right. Although I was viewing this whole thing from a naive perspective of personalities and truths. Actually race and money are massively topical and emotive in the world, and particularly UK at present with recent events, so makes sense our fears, passions and emotions around these topics are spilling out around the H&M and RF arguments and debates, and the debates re: H&M and RF are perhaps tapping into people's views and experiences with racism and poverty

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Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:40

Haywirecity · 22/05/2023 18:54

It's a lovely day for being out, op. Where are you wandering to? 🙃

I was wondering that as I wandered .... 😉

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mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 19:42

Did you wonder lonely as a cloud? 😂

MayQueeen · 22/05/2023 19:45

Interesting thread and some great and insightful posts!

Have the fanatical supporters really been weeded out? They started so much nonsense, always with the baiting threads that would consequently get deleted, chased other posters off by baiting them and accessing them of racism.

They even had whole backstories invented for their online personas 😂 and the amount of made up detail they would include then try and claim some sort of credibility for using the same name frequently - like that proved anything 😂

Haywirecity · 22/05/2023 19:50

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:40

I was wondering that as I wandered .... 😉

Show quote history

😂😂 👍

I do it all the time! (I blame it on autocorrect! 😉)

Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:57

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 19:42

Did you wonder lonely as a cloud? 😂

😉⛅

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Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 19:58

Haywirecity · 22/05/2023 19:50

😂😂 👍

I do it all the time! (I blame it on autocorrect! 😉)

Show quote history

👍👍

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mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 20:16

MayQueeen · 22/05/2023 19:45

Interesting thread and some great and insightful posts!

Have the fanatical supporters really been weeded out? They started so much nonsense, always with the baiting threads that would consequently get deleted, chased other posters off by baiting them and accessing them of racism.

They even had whole backstories invented for their online personas 😂 and the amount of made up detail they would include then try and claim some sort of credibility for using the same name frequently - like that proved anything 😂

I have no idea, but I could give several prolific user names that seem to have disappeared within the past 48 hours or so.

It's always a good idea to take a break if you find yourself getting too caught up in arguing with random strangers on the internet.

SidekickSylvia · 22/05/2023 20:22

There are 4 posters who make up about 50% of any thread about H and M, defending their heroes, and you never see them anywhere else. The posters who find H and M ridiculous are around on other topics/threads, but not those 4 - just the one topic for them; defending H and M. It's a bit odd.

Toomanycaketins · 22/05/2023 20:22

I hope the absent H&M supporters are ok, I’d like to imagine they are all away on a girls holiday together, letting off some steam in the real world (maybe binge watching suits in a hot tub)

I dipped a toe onto one thread, with a fairly neutral opinion and was rounded on as a suspicious new poster. I think this is partly why there are very few posters who manage to hold a middle ground opinion, as there is little room to explore any ideas that aren’t 100% positive about H&M, even in a post which is largely sympathetic but perhaps gently critical of a course of action or statement from them. I am in awe of serensters knowledgeable, factual and calm posting.

I also suspect there are a lot of lurkers who come to the threads just to watch the drama tennis unfolding between posters rather than the subject matter itself.

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 20:48

It was quite unpleasant, but I got fed up of the bullying and decided to put my head above the parapet. In the end the most effective response seemed to be to refuse to get drawn into their accusations and just laugh at them. The vitriol increased for a while, and then they seemed to stop responding.

MayQueeen · 22/05/2023 20:54

Laughing at the image of them in a hot tub watching suits 😂

And yes, I also noticed how they would sometimes start following posters who disagreed with them onto other threads just to keep on at them. Utterly bizarre and shocking to think anyone can have they much time on their hands! Those unnameable ones would also sometimes start grooming posters that had disagreed with them previously, after arguing with them. The old switch and bait tactic.

Does anyone remember a poster called random penguin house or something similar? They were bullied off unmercifully- they were always v fair and balanced. They were a poc and were goaded into opening up in their personal experiences of racism by being first accused of racism. Then any post or thread they started would get bombarded.

The imploding threads have been hilarious at times, but also, just so repetitive! And a shame when it puts off the more nuanced intelligent posters who genuinely just like chewing the fat and swapping opinions

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 21:02

Well, hopefully either they have woken up to themselves (and are off in the hot tub) or MNHQ has woken up to them.

It is strange that so many have disappeared all at once.

Anyway, on a more important issue, I tried to find a daffodil emoji for @SweetTooth2 but there isn't one. Definitely a gap in the market 😀

MayQueeen · 22/05/2023 21:25

I can’t believe that people can finally make mildly critical remarks about Meghan and Harry without being descended upon 😂

let’s enjoy it until they start new accounts 🌞

Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 21:30

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 21:02

Well, hopefully either they have woken up to themselves (and are off in the hot tub) or MNHQ has woken up to them.

It is strange that so many have disappeared all at once.

Anyway, on a more important issue, I tried to find a daffodil emoji for @SweetTooth2 but there isn't one. Definitely a gap in the market 😀

Will this do?

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mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 21:41

Very spring-like!

Original poster

SweetTooth2 · 22/05/2023 21:48

mixedrecycling · 22/05/2023 21:41

Very spring-like!

:) 👍

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Divebar2021 · 22/05/2023 22:01

The lack of nuance really is pitiful. The inability to see that several positions can be true at the same ( eg some press were racist but some were positively sycophantic…). I can see arguments on both sides for and against the monarchy. I find aspects of it bizarre nowadays but I also understand why people are supporters but it’s difficult to have a moderate debate. The Fab Four thread had some brutally bitchy comments - seemingly mostly about outfits, without any acknowledgment that any of the four may be involved in work that had a value. Mind you the blows were raining thick and fast on the Philip Schofield thread so perhaps people just really like putting the boot in.

GloriousD · 22/05/2023 22:05

MayQueeen · 22/05/2023 19:45

Interesting thread and some great and insightful posts!

Have the fanatical supporters really been weeded out? They started so much nonsense, always with the baiting threads that would consequently get deleted, chased other posters off by baiting them and accessing them of racism.

They even had whole backstories invented for their online personas 😂 and the amount of made up detail they would include then try and claim some sort of credibility for using the same name frequently - like that proved anything 😂

What are the hotel revelations?

friendlycat · 22/05/2023 23:04

It really is quite refreshing to be able to read balanced comments without the pile on from the ardent supporters. The thing that’s so trying is the way if anybody criticises the actions of Meghan they are accused of racism.

This thread has shown articulate and reasoned comments.