Just wandering...

[SweetTooth2]

What is it about H&M and/or the royals, that gets people so angry and worked up?

People being pretty hostile to each other on the royal threads these days?

There seem to be quite fierce emotions in defence of H&M and also attacking them.

What's it all about do you think? Why all the hostility on these boards on either side?

(Obviously loads of people not being hostile. I fully acknowledge that! Just wondering why some posters have so much emotion for or against, and why the hostility to those with differing opinions. What is being ignited or triggered in people?)

Rockybooboo,

You've just claimed to know how and why people who feel differently to yourself, feel the way they do. That's such a bizarre and personal thing to do to people you don't know.

Harry and Meghan are being mocked everywhere; comedians in America are taking the piss, news channels in Australia are taking the piss, there are memes all over social media taking the piss. Why? Is everyone in some kind of British Royal Family following cult? Or because a pair of high profile, completely talentless, egotistical muppets with a superiority and saviour complex want to be as famous and respected as the Obamas and as rich as Bill Gates. And they're too thick to see how utterly transparent every publicity stunt is to 90% of the public. It's simply entertaining, and not much deeper than that.

how bizarre that you then think you can speak for 90% of the public! Most people I know do not care about any of the royals and think social media and media pick a target and go for them regardless of what they do, nobody I know thinks any of the extreme thoughts seen here about them its a very very small part of the general population that hates on celebrities while the rest of us get on with things

I hate the entire RF and think, like many others, that they are parasites. The fact that when I criticise M it is 'racist' is fucking obnoxious. People are weird and unhinge about the RF - the whole Diana's funeral thing made the scales fall from my eyes and I pity people on low incomes, especially Northerners, who like them because you know that the RF would despise us peasants.

Why am I not surprised? While I, and I am sure many others reported it for the obvious. Interesting that out of 6 pages the vast majority were doubting OPs reasons for starting it.

Report away as no doubt this post will be too. Racism 'subtle' or not will always be challenged.

So let me get this right.

A thread in which a poster basically lies, and says that Doria goes everywhere with Harry and Meghan is posted. Lots of dog whistles about how weird and odd it is for Doria to be around so much.

I point out that she has actually been seen in public 6 times in 7 years. I give those instances, including the wedding and Archie's christening.

Others also ask OP to give examples of what she means, and where Doria has been seen if it's all the time.

I pointed out that Doria is never mentioned on these threads in a positive way. I ask whether OP has a problem with Carole Middleton who is seen in public more than Doria has ever been.

You get the thread deleted 6 pages in because it was a pile on?

So a pile on is when anyone who posts stupid, dog whistling things that are not true is exposed? What was the point of the thread, if not to create animosity against Doria based on something that was not true?

@polkadotdalmation has also been gunning for Doria, she has posted that Meghan had no relationship with her mother, and that she did not never mentioned her at all before she met Harry. When presented with evidence that this was simply not true, Meghan has not only written about her mother, but also attended events with her, she continued to dig in.

It's interesting then that she confirms in this thread that she has tried to get me and others banned for pointing out the racist narrative that the black parent was never around while the white parent who has proved himself so awful, is the one Meghan should be bullied into a relationship with.

Doria is not a public person She is not a member of the Royal Family, You do not pay for her. So I can't think of any reason as to why people would be targeting Doria in this mean-spirited and malicious way .. apart from the reason no one wants to acknowledge.

That was a quote from H&M, not the RF!

When it was announced that they had stepped down as members of the RF they put out a statement saying "We can all live a life of service. Service is universal."

I really don't think M saw the 'best of the UK' (the media for one) or was made to feel comfortable tbh. I'm surprised anyone would think this!!

I’m not here to criticise Doria but the reason I don’t warm to her is the fact that she’s associated with fredo and yoko - it’s nothing personal against doria and certainly not because she’s black. She is something of an enigma really - and good for her.

I think perception is an interesting thing. That poster’s real concern always is civility regardless of what is being said. There was plenty in that thread to give me an idea that the OP was a bad actor - it was the comments that she agreed with and engaged with that made it apparent. But anyway this is becoming TAAT and we should stick to the topic.

You don't have to warm to Doria.

You don't have to like her at all.

But to spread untrue things about her is not okay.

And to spread untrue things about her rooted in negative tropes associated with black women is definitely not okay.

I think Doria most attractive and she appears very dignified. I do, however, have some slight misgivings about Meghan’s reasons for Doria’s presence.

If it were, “Awww, my mom will love dressing up for this fancy awards” then fine. But precisely because Doria seems quiet (and attractive) she is a crowd-pleasing accessory. There is footage of Meghan scowling when Doria chats to someone in Meghan’s presence, so I guess it’s not Doria’s place to actually speak.

@MrsMaxDeWinter Yet again you have posted a pack of lies about me, just as others did regarding my thoughts on Harry's racist attitude to the people (yes people, not chess pieces) he killed. I never said
Doria had no relationship with her daughter, I said she lived with her father exclusively for many years while her mother ran a travel agency in another state. I said as she got older her mother was in the picture far more and continues to love and support her to this day. I also said Doria looks a kind and beautiful person, and on the deleted thread it was perfectly normal for Doria to accompany her daughter to events. You need to get a grip and stop posting personal attacks on people.

eew, did you just call her mom a crowd pleasing accessory? its her mom, this is a mean thing to say.

@Grumpyfroghats

That's a very insightful post. RS Locke on the Medium writes in a similar vein, that Meghan will never be forgiven because she took a look at all the stuff that comes with being a royal, the weird protocol, pretty castles, all the pretty horses and all the nasty press and said nah, this is not for me. And yet these are things that go to the heart of what it means to be British, apparently, so the sense of rejection is real. And she didn't leave alone either, she took Harry with her.

As for US versus UK racism. The US does not shy from acknowledging its racist past, or racism in the present. The UK however is keen to not have the conversation at all ...as shown many times on Mumsnet where, racism is completely denied.

Posters are famous for belittling the experience of women of colour, a common tactic here is to create false equivalence by claiming that they have black husbands, boyfriends, best friends, adopted children etc, which would not be a problem expect that this is then used to dismiss and belittle the experiences of posters of colour.

When people even deny that there is such a thing as racism in the UK, it becomes difficult to address it as openly as they try to do in the US.

And it's exactly those types of personal attacks that have made the RF topic so nasty and toxic which is what this whole thread is about!

No.

You don't get away with rewriting history.

You said Meghan did not see her mother as a child. In fact, you said she had been abandoned by her mother.

Many pointed out she was a child who was co-parented by both her parents, and the fact that she lived with Thomas as the residential parent from age 11 does not mean she had been abandoned by her mother at all.

You also said she had never once written about her mother before she met Harry. remember this because I actually then posted something from the Tig. I provided proof that she had, and you still dug in.

I have no idea what you said about the Taliban so can't possibly comment. But I remember the conversation about Doria because you absolutely refused to acknowledge that you had been wrong to say Meghan had never written about her mother.

To point out when someone is wrong is not a personal attack. Thanks.

Racism is not limited to colour.
And to deny this is racist in and of itself.

try telling the Jews that the Final Solution was not racist.
or tell the Slavs that GeneralPlan Ost was not racist.
or how about telling the hundreds of thousands forced into slave Labour under under the Third Reich that the reasons they perished were not racist.

@MrsMaxDeWinter

I am a WOC and have lived in both countries - sort of mirror image of Meghan in that I have spent most of my life in the UK but 2-3 years in the US in different states. I have a lot of family there too.

I don't think it's possible to make an objective judgement about which country has more racism.

My personal experience is that I think there is racism in both countries. The issues in the US are more severe, I have felt genuinely unsafe at times because of my race. And there are definitely people in the US who completely deny that racism is still an issue. The UK I think is in many ways more complicated, the history of the UK and its Empire makes things more complex and I think I agree there is more denial of racism as an issue. I think things are changing though, I was pleased to see the back of the Colston statue for example

I see Meghan is due to accept an award about her Stereotypes podcast. After the shit show after the last awards I wonder if she will attend.

i see it’s at the four seasons - hopefully Rudy Guiliani wasn’t in charge of booking the venue 😀😀

MrsMaxdeWinter - you are quite wrong. Meghan did indeed look at all the pretty castles, pageantry, outfits etc etc and of course a prince and thought yes please! Do you honestly think she’d have gone for Harry Windsor if he’d been an actor of a similar level as she was?

The problem was, yes, the constant media attention, but it was also very much that royal life can be crap. They weren’t living in a castle (nb Meghan’s comment to Oprah about Frogmore Cottage and the fact that Harry asked for Windsor Castle which was laughed out of Windsor Great Park) and there is drudge (Meghan saying she couldn’t believe she wasn’t paid during Australia tour) and outfits and gifts are carefully monitored - no freebies.

Meghan and Harry left to monetise and control their position. I’m not sure Harry thought he would end up in LA but Meghan for sure wasn’t going to be spending her life hiking in British Columbia.

@MrsMaxDeWinter

It's a long read but on US race history, have a look at the NY times articles on Gary Tyler

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/opinion/05herbert.html

He eventually had to plead guilty to get out of prison for being black. No Louisiana governor would get involved. This isn't a country which acknowledges racism

Meghan and Harry were talking about how small Nottingham Cottage was, not Frogmore Cottage. William and Kate even lived there before they had kids, and it is understood to be the Royal version of a bachelor or studio flat. When they got married they were given Frogmore, and have nothing but good things to say about their time there.

I have no idea what you mean when you say Harry asked for Windsor Castle. As far as I know, there are apartments at Windsor Castle, including where the Queen lived. Are you saying that he asked for his grandparents to be turfed out so he could move in to the whole castle, or was an apartment in the Castle discussed?

As for stuff Meghan is supposed to have said: I don't believe most it, especially if it's stuff from Tom Bower. Tom Bower has been saying Kate refused to curtsey to Camila at the coronation, Kate wanted Meghan to sit at the back of the Abbey, the Queen said thank God Meghan is not coming etc.

FYI, regarding Doria, before she was a Royal, Meghan took her mother to events like her UN Women speech. So forgive me if I take your opinions about Meghan using Doria with a healthy dose of scepticism.

Thanks for posting that.

I don't say four a minute that the US does not have a race problem, the US, like South Africa, is a country built on a foundation of racial inequality and discrimination.

But the US is far more willing to confront that problem head on, not always with success, but the conversations happen and the activism, court action etc do happen.

My point is that in the UK, the minute the conversation is even raised, it is shouted down.

There is a dangerous creep towards labelling anything to do with race as "woke". And there is a dangerous lumping together of several issues, which makes it easy to dismiss.

I am convinced that if the McPherson Inquiry were to release its findings today, they would be dismissed as woke leftist nonsense.

I think Meghan has demonstrated in the past that she’s brave enough to brush off criticism and appear in public, so if she wants to attend, I am sure she will. I wonder if it’s that likely however?

The Gracie Awards are prodigious - there’s literally pages and pages of 2023 winners, with easy 15 or so just in the Podcast category. I very much doubt it will be an event where everyone gets to come up on stage and give a speech? They’d be there for days 🤣. Unless they break them up and it’s just the podcast awards ceremony tonight?

https://allwomeninmedia.org/app/uploads/2023/04/2023-Gracies-Winners-List-Final.pdf

I ask whether OP has a problem with Carole Middleton who is seen in public more than Doria has ever been.

I think that’s a silly argument to make, given Kate Middleton has been in the public eye since she was outed as William’s girlfriend 20 years ago. Of course that got her family got press attention too, and they lived in the UK and attended public events as well as family occasions that were photographed. Meghan and Harry’s relationship hands only been public for 6 years, and Doria lives in Los Angeles. Of course there are more pictures of Carole Middleton. What’s your point?