Just wandering...

[SweetTooth2]

What is it about H&M and/or the royals, that gets people so angry and worked up?

People being pretty hostile to each other on the royal threads these days?

There seem to be quite fierce emotions in defence of H&M and also attacking them.

What's it all about do you think? Why all the hostility on these boards on either side?

(Obviously loads of people not being hostile. I fully acknowledge that! Just wondering why some posters have so much emotion for or against, and why the hostility to those with differing opinions. What is being ignited or triggered in people?)

She really was an incredible woman, @polkadotdalmation

@GloriousD - I don’t think it would be appropriate to name names. Plus it kind of makes it a thread about a thread.

I think the comparison with TT is somewhat unfair to Meghan. When she met Harry, the amount of press attention and social media interest was like nothing else before. Meghan experienced some direct racism but also a lot more subtle bias through the press, drip feeding everyday but very hard to call out. Would Clarkson have felt emboldened to write that horrible column about her without the insidious maligning of her through the press? Presumably there was no rule book how to deal with this, obviously never explain etc wasn’t going to cut it, so on those grounds I really feel for her. I don’t actually think she herself has claimed victimhood as much as her detractors say she has.

on the other hand, there are some who would use racism as a retort to any, even relatively mild criticism of Meghan, she is elevated to the sainthood, entirely perfect and persecuted in their eyes.

it is possible for her to have her faults, to be disliked for many reasons other than race, but as many posters have pointed out on these threads before, we see these things through the lens of the media, her experiences of racism as a biracial woman are entirely hers to define and to suggest that there is one acceptable way for WOC to react or behave is a standard not applied to white women.

I agree to a certain degree @Toomanycaketins (how is it possible to have too many cake tins?! Just make more cakes!), but the Oprah insinuations about racism did come directly from MM.

The vast majority of negative press against MM was as a direct result of her accusations against the RF on Oprah. Prior to that there was a lot of positive press which only became less positive when rumours of bullying etc came out. Frankly when a couple spend 2 years making mostly unfounded allegations against an institution that they continue to merchandise with their titles it's hardly surprising they are disliked.

Wonder if their sharp exit had anything to do with the bullying coming to light. Terrible that’s been buried throughout all this.

’Do you feel righteous and superior calling people obsessed stalkers or Sussex fanboys and girls’

urm no, I feel very sad did them. I wasn’t referring to people with different views to me anywya. I was referring to Sussex squad, it’s an obsessed weird stalker group for real. Google it.

If the shoe fits and thats who you identify with when they’re referred to, that’s more to do with you not me x

it is possible for her to have her faults, to be disliked for many reasons other than race, but as many posters have pointed out on these threads before, we see these things through the lens of the media, her experiences of racism as a biracial woman are entirely hers to define and to suggest that there is one acceptable way for WOC to react or behave is a standard not applied to white women.

I don’t agree at all that white women aren’t subject to a standard that sets one acceptable way for them to behave. Have a read of Camille Rainbille’s excellent piece of writing titled “Be a Lady”

https://aatayyab.wordpress.com/2021/02/05/be-a-lady-they-said-cynthia-nixon/

I think you're right, I was quite supportive of them until this point but the whole thing just left a bad taste

Her self/pitying tone has in that ITV interview didn’t help. Especially as she was in a country where many live in great poverty but seemed consumed with her own perceived injustices.

tone deaf

I am behind the times. Can you explain what came to light?

Bullying of their staff while still in U.K.
several resignations.

Something new?

@AliceOlive pagesix.com/2023/01/11/palace-staff-members-sticking-to-claims-they-were-bullied-by-meghan-markle/

Jason Knauf (who in court proved that Meghan was lying re collaborating with omid scobie on 'finding freedom') brought the claims to the attention of William, and I think that's why dog bowlgate happened. Harry confirmed in his book staff were crying at their desks.

I personally think Meghan was attempting control the media around her, even social media and was whipping up the staff to counteract the media stories, but it was an impossible task, hence the frustration of Meghan with the staff and the upset of the staff.

Sorry this was when she was still a working royal and the stories began to leak out, making public perception of her less favourable, and fuelling the media attention she couldn't handle.

It's well know Meghan is a micromanager who wants to be in control and none of this she or Harry could control, hence their increasing upset, and frustration, prompting them to want to leave. It had nothing to do with racism, which I think amounted to a crass but common and understandable question before the marriage speculating on the skin tone. Neither cite any other incidence from the actual family re racism. So to me their real reason to get away was to make a different and more controllable life for themselves.

I was conflating a post about users disappearing this weekend to the quote above re "sharp exit" and bullying.

I thought there was something new that came to light.

Sometimes you have to sit back and listen and absorb on the way to understanding, instead of reacting with denial to something being shared with you. it is not the same for all of us.

Re the article linked to, ‘Be A Lady They Said’: I’ve read it before, and it’s not about there being ‘one acceptable way’ for women to behave. It’s about the impossibility of meeting all the conflicting expectations of how we ‘should’ behave.

Folks - apparently (saw some vague headlines) they may be moving back to the UK, because of the drug admissions in the book but omissions on the visa app. Doubt it though, I’m sure their Teflon coats made of elite rich privilege will continue to protect them.

Feels almost peculiar being able to post without being shouted down and called a racist 😂

Also it was a while ago I read spare but one of the things that stuck out was their hot / cold treatment of their staff. Harry made a point of saying how Megan would gift them stuff but also ended up mentioning the tears and stress. For me, he unintentionally confirmed there was micro management, switching up playing good boss/bad boss to keep the employees feeling unbalanced etc. Buckingham palace shoudl have done more to protect the staff and there should have been a consequence for Harry and Megan. Not just an argument off the record between the brothers.

I think H&M’s least attractive quality is their tendency to throw named members of staff under the bus, most of whom are under NDAs and can’t defend their reputation. The principals should be responsible. Look how much abuse Jason Knauf gets from their fans. And they basically hinted the nanny committed gross misconduct or put a child in danger or something, she can’t defend her professional reputation or give her side of the story.

Exactly!

The self aggrandising, virtue signalling, bafflingly tone deaf comments etc are v cringe but tbf most celebs are guilty of it.

However, the bullying, trampling over the little people whilst playing the victim card to distract, is what makes it difficult to shrug off their antics as just being part of the course for celebs. As cringe and self absorbed as the kardashians are, for example, haven’t heard of them treating their staff in a similar way and then burying bullying reports etc. Nor have I heard Kim then claim people were ‘haterz’ cos they were being racist to Armenians. As awful as I think she is, she seems to be aware that’s she super privileged and has a different attitude towards not always getting favourable press.

Not a fan of the kardashians either, but at least we are allowed to state that without being accused of all sorts

I think if all this had happened 10 years ago, it would be totally uncontroversial to say they can be hypocritical or properly investigate the bullying behaviour. Nobody would say it was racist to criticise a prince and his wife. It’s just happened to coincide with a weird time in general, especially in the US.

According to Scobie the nanny was sacked in the middle of the night.

But their time with the couple brief. Meghan and Harry were forced to let the nurse go in the middle of her second night for being unprofessional and irresponsible.
While their second employee did a "fine job", the first "incident" had left them both nervous.
The book states: "Neither found themselves comfortable sleeping through the night without going to check on Archie regularly.
So after a few weeks they decided to let her go and take on the nighttime duties themselves. But they still opted to keep help, hiring a new day time nanny who worked weekdays.

I wonder what she was doing in the middle of the night with the baby that meant that they had to keep getting up and checking.

I think that’s the point though, it’s all insinuation. If they had genuine concerns they should have reported them confidentially to the regulator. The fact they have chosen to go public and imply the nanny is not safe around children could harm her professional reputation and with her being unable to reply publicly to the allegations. And they only decided to disclose this publicly because of reports about staff turnover, no other reason. Their constant tactic of shoving current and former employees under the bus whenever they get a bit of bad press is not exactly their best quality.