Sarah Ferguson: The real reason I’ll always stand by Prince Andrew
Ahead of her new novel, the Duchess of York talks exclusively about supporting her ‘poor’ ex-husband and why Diana would be proud of Harry
By Celia Walden 3 March 2023 • 9:00am
Ask the Duchess of York what the best piece of advice Queen Elizabeth ever gave her was, and she doesn’t have to think about it for a second. ‘Be yourself, Sarah. All anyone wants is for you to just be yourself.’ She gives a wistful smile. ‘I’ve always found that hard. It’s taken me this long to get there.’
This surprises me. I always thought the 63-year-old was ahead of her time in the ‘being herself’ department: a ‘take me or leave me’ trailblazer. From the whimsical Lindka Cierach dress she chose to wear when she married Prince Andrew in 1986 and the way she navigated both their divorce and her royal exit six years later, to her reinvention as a New York Times bestselling author, the Duchess has never struck me as someone hemmed in by convention.
Certainly, the woman sitting across the table from me in The River Café now – still in full make-up from our shoot, wearing an asymmetrical black and white blazer by a Spanish brand – is 100 proof, neat ‘Fergie’, asking our waitress where she’s from in Poland, and telling her about the trip to Warsaw she took last year as part of the work she’s doing with Ukrainian refugees for her charity, Sarah’s Trust. And it’s easy to see why the Queen remained so close to her warm, energetic former daughter-in-law, even entrusting her corgis to the Duchess after she died.
‘Every day I look at Muick and Sandy and want to say, “It’s all right.”’ Sarah shakes her head. ‘HM used to give them little bits of digestive biscuits, so after lunch now I’ll crack up a biscuit for them and deliberately make that same noise.’
She and the late Queen Elizabeth enjoyed long chats on their regular dog walks over the years, and the Duchess’s eyes grow sheeny as she tells me about the late monarch’s ‘ability to listen and never judge’.
‘She was able to completely and utterly dilute chaos. And still carry on. And still smile. And still go through everything that she went through.’
‘Queen Elizabeth was more of a mother to me than my own mother’
Even to those of us who never met Queen Elizabeth, that idea of her being able to ‘dilute chaos’ rings so true. I’ve always imagined that our late monarch must have been much more forgiving and understanding than others of her generation – about the ups and downs of life, about mistakes and such things as divorce? ‘She understood all of it. Everything. And it wasn’t even about forgiving, but a way of life. Duty, sense of purpose, but of course never judgment.’
The Duchess will always be grateful to have had ‘even a minute of HM’s time’, she tells me. ‘Because also, during the last three years, her poor son [Prince Andrew] has been going through such a tumultuous time, and I think HM was very relieved I could help her with him, so we became even closer, then.
‘But I’ve always admired and adored her. Really, she was more of a mother to me than my mother.’
On the subject of Prince Andrew, I ask whether these past three years have made her tight-knit family even closer, but she replies with a question of her own, asking how I would feel if, say, my own daughter fell over at school?
‘You want to say: “Get up, come on, it’s fine!” You don’t want her to be hurting. And I think it’s really sad to see what Andrew has been through.’
And was Queen Elizabeth confident that Sarah would be there for Prince Andrew when she no longer could be? ‘She knew,’ she confirms quietly. ‘I will always be there. Always. Because I love her.’
The Duchess with the Duke
The pair have remained incredibly close despite their divorce Credit: Samir Hussein/WireImage
This level of openness so early on in our interview is disarming. I’ve met the Duchess before on a number of occasions, as well as her daughters, Princesses Beatrice, 34, and Eugenie, 32 – who are both strikingly kind and easy-going – and I had hoped she would feel comfortable with me. But we’re here to talk about her new Mills & Boon novel, A Most Intriguing Lady, and given the herd of elephants in the room today – from the latest twist in Prince Andrew’s court settlement with Virginia Giuffre, to Meghan Markle and Prince Harry and the reverberations of his memoir, Spare – I had expected to find her more guarded.
Remembering a line from an interviewer who once described the Duchess as wearing her heart not so much on her sleeve as from ‘head to toe’, I quote it. She liked that line, she says. I wonder whether despite the problems it has caused her over the years, part of her just doesn’t want to be a tightly zipped person. Her forthrightness is infectious. Whether in the photographic studio earlier or here in the restaurant, people are drawn into ‘Fergie’s’ emotional vortex and offer up confidences immediately. Within minutes there’s hugging, hand pressing. There’s Fergie, sending her best wishes to sick relatives she’s never met, and handing out life mantras to people who were strangers only minutes ago.
‘It’s the storyteller in me,’ she explains. ‘I’m naturally curious – always have been.’ Like the Duchess, Lady Mary, the heroine of her new novel, is acutely observant and fascinated by people. Inspired by one of Sarah’s own ancestors – her great-great-aunt, Lady Mary Montagu Douglas Scott – she forms an unlikely alliance with the dashing Colonel Walter Trefusis in order to solve a crime, and quickly finds herself falling for her fellow sleuth.
As with the Duchess’s first foray into Mills & Boon in 2021, the novel was co-written with historical romance author Marguerite Kaye. ‘We call our writing process “collabor-writing”,’ she tells me, ‘because it’s a real two-way thing. Our text goes back and forth between us, and we’ll chat on the phone pretty much daily.’
Sarah Ferguson
Mills & Boon felt like a natural fit for a woman who has always craved the kind of uplifting escapism the books provide. ‘It’s that promise of a feel-good fix,’ she says. ‘And I love celebration, I love romance, I love anything that takes me into joy.’ She frowns, the twitch of a smile at the corners of her mouth. ‘I take joy very seriously indeed.’
For the first book to have been a bestseller on both sides of the Atlantic was unhoped for. ‘I feel really proud to be a new novelist in my 60s! Like my life is just beginning,’ she enthuses. ‘And I’ve told Jeffrey Archer that I want to beat him with this one.’
Now, the Duchess admits she is ‘in talks for a major US TV series involving both books’. She gives a Cheshire cat grin. ‘It’s very exciting. You know, I’ve wanted to be a romantic novelist for 20 years or more, and I never gave up on my dream.’
One of her favourite quotes comes from the great Sidney Poitier, she says: ‘It’s difficult when you’re carrying other people’s dreams. You have to hold on to the dream that’s inside yourself and know if you’re true to that, that’s really all that matters.’
I’m assuming this is a reference to all the baggage that comes with marrying into the Royal family. Baggage that didn’t disappear with her divorce. And, of course, Sarah could teach Gwyneth Paltrow a thing or two about ‘conscious uncoupling’.
‘Every little girl dreams of being a princess – I loved every minute of it’
Whatever your view may be on her enduring loyalty to her ex-husband, with whom she still lives at Royal Lodge when in the UK, she seems to have pulled off that rare feat: an amicable divorce. ‘I think we have an amazing mutual understanding of one another,’ she explains. ‘We’ve always been like that. Also, we both hate confrontation.’
As for the Poitier quote, she’ll only explain its significance obliquely. ‘I think that for those to whom a lot of responsibility is given you must always remember that the minute you walk out your front door, you need to be electable but never elected.’
The Duchess dons an earnest expression. ‘Remember that the dream of every little girl is to be a princess, and I was a princess. And I loved every minute of it.’
I stare at her. Sorry: what? She can’t possibly have loved every minute. When Sarah became the first royal to sit down for an interview with Oprah Winfrey in 1996, she told the US chat show host that royal life was ‘not a fairy tale’.
‘The thing is,’ she counters today, ‘I had the great honour of being the Queen’s daughter-in-law, and therefore I couldn’t not see every single second as a great learning curve.’ OK. But having to get all dressed up for royal functions… ‘Loved it.’ Having to sit through those functions? ‘Loved it. Loved it.’
Queen Elizabeth and Sarah Ferguson
‘I always admired and adored Queen Elizabeth’
She breaks off, drizzles some balsamic over her mozzarella salad, and resumes. ‘Listen, if every little girl’s dream is to be a princess, then your job is to uphold that dream. So I don’t ever want to let it down.’
Particularly now, after Queen Elizabeth’s death, the Duchess goes on, ‘it’s unbelievably important to uphold Her Majesty’s legacy. And although I’m not a member of the Royal family any more, my values are what I believe is right – and that’s what they uphold.’
For that reason, she has always said to her daughters: ‘Even when you’re just walking out of your own front door, always smile. Uphold all that. No one wants to see a grumpy princess.’
I burst out laughing, and the Duchess joins in. ‘Is that going to be your headline?’ she jokes. Probably. I mean, I hate to point out the obvious, but someone has killed the dream quite dramatically, haven’t they? By being a very grumpy ‘princess’ indeed.
Sarah raises an eyebrow. She’s going to make me say it. I’m talking about Meghan Markle, I say leadenly. The Duchess takes a bite of her salad; chews for a moment. ‘I don’t really know Meghan. I haven’t really met her. I spoke to her at the funeral, and I thought she looked absolutely beautiful. I think she is beautiful.’
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Fergie on Diana: ‘We both supported each other’ Credit: Tim Graham/ Getty
No argument there. But has she damaged the Royal family? ‘It is absolutely not my place to answer that,’ says the Duchess in a single exhalation. ‘She has made Harry very happy, and that is so nice. Honestly, he’s so happy with her. She really loves him. And I think that’s beautiful – and that Diana would be proud of him and her lovely grandchildren.’
Did she watch the Netflix documentary? She widens her eyes but stays silent. When I repeat the question, the Duchess holds up a finger: ‘I’m just trying to think… Right.’ She’s formulated a response. ‘So, I think I’m a devourer of information on Netflix.’ OK… ‘And I love watching everything on Netflix.’ What am I supposed to do with that? She chuckles. ‘I also think that one day I’d like to do a documentary.’ A similar one? ‘I don’t know. I can’t be led,’ she says, shutting me down. ‘Not on this.’
‘Diana was called beautiful and tall and I was fat, frumpy Fergie’
Does she think Diana would have liked Meghan, I venture? Tilting her head to one side the Duchess deadpans: ‘I feel sorry for you.’ Still laughing at the put-down, I try something else: given the Duchess also relocated to the US after leaving the Royal family, does she think fleeing Britain really will turn out to be Prince Harry’s best chance at happiness? ‘I can’t speak for him,’ she says with a small sigh, ‘but I will say that after I got divorced, I spent 12 years in America, writing books, and it was a wonderful place for me. I felt free there. And I can’t thank Americans enough for the way they were with me. So,’ she nods, ‘I can understand why he would [do that].’
For a moment, Sarah looks dejected. ‘Why do people always judge?’ she asks quietly. ‘They can have a view, but don’t put someone down to have that view.’ It’s a fair point, particularly when you consider the judgments thrown at ‘Fergie’ over the years. And of course, women get it far worse than men.
‘Over 30 years,’ she says. ‘It started in August 1988.’ Tonelessly, Sarah runs through some of the worst headlines: ‘“The Duchess of Pork”; “82 per cent would rather sleep with a goat than Fergie.” Shall I go on?’
Then there was the pitting of her against Diana. ‘All the time. Everywhere. Because Diana was beautiful and tall, running out of the gym, and I was fat, frumpy Fergie coming behind. Sometimes “fat, frumpy, frolicking Fergie”. Lots of “fs”.’ Was the Princess of Wales sympathetic? ‘We both supported each other.’
The Duchess of York had a well-documented binge-eating disorder which, understandably, got worse around that time. ‘For 10 years all that caused me to have even more of a problem. Bad Fergie sold papers. Bad Fergie still sells papers.’
But her difficult relationship with food started years before that, she says. ‘From the age of 15, I was never thin enough. Good enough. Correct enough. I didn’t take things seriously enough. Everything was never enough.’ Where does she think that feeling comes from? ‘Oh I know where it comes from.’
Sarah Ferguson
Credit: Photography by Violeta Sofia; Styling by Tona Stell; Hair by Ben Cooke; Make-up by Hannah Martin
The daughter of Major Ronald Ferguson and his first wife, Susan, came from what Sarah once described as ‘country gentry with a bit of old money’. As a child she loved horse riding and won many cups. But when she was 12, her parents separated and within a few years her mother had eloped with an Argentinian polo player. ‘Why would your own mother leave you?’ she asks. ‘Can you imagine it? So how could I possibly have managed?
‘Then, when I got to 15 my sister went to live in Australia, and I was left with Dad.’ She shakes her head. ‘That must be really bad for someone, mustn’t it? To have so much punishment? To be abandoned? But you know, I think that’s why I’m such a good mother.’
Was she never able to ‘fix’ the eating disorder: that feeling she was never good enough? ‘No. I think you learn to live with what Martin Luther King called “the inaudible language of the heart”.’ Doing things for others has been more therapeutic than anything else, she admits.
Her work on children’s education, most recently as an ambassador for Montessori schools (she will be announcing plans for a new charitable fund later this year), has been deeply rewarding, she says. The blind Ukrainian children’s choir she welcomed here just before Christmas, ‘so uplifting’. ‘But I have many scars,’ she says, ‘and my scars are really, really big. Because they have come from major obstacles.’
‘Perception can make or break someone... and I see what it has done to Andrew’
She tells me about the moment she broke down in tears, earlier in the week, in the middle of a meeting at London’s Berkeley hotel about the promotion of A Most Intriguing Lady. Suddenly it all ‘became too much for my strength to cope with’, she explains. ‘And I just thought: “I can’t.”’
Because she probably feels she has to be strong for everyone else? ‘I do have to be at the moment, yes. Because it has been…’ She pauses, presses her lips together, as if to stop herself from saying more. Then: ‘When Andrew went through a hard time, I used to be able to throw it to The Boss…’ But she can’t do that now. ‘No.’
We’re finishing our desserts when she points out that I’m wrong about ‘women getting it worse than men’. ‘Perception is… so important. It can make or break someone. And I’m living with someone – at least when I’m in England and lucky enough to be a guest at Royal Lodge – and I see what that perception has done to a very kind man. I really mean that.’
Shortly after our interview it was reported that Prince Andrew was set to have his £249,000 annual allowance cut from April – sources claimed he feared this would mean he would be forced out of Royal Lodge. Other reports suggested that he had been offered Frogmore Cottage, the UK home of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.
The Duchess had no comment to make on this.
After almost two hours with Sarah, I can see that she really does ‘take joy very seriously indeed’. Because the moments of despondency always end on an up-note: a reason to feel grateful. ‘It’s just amazing how good a grandfather Andrew is,’ she’s telling me now, her face brightening at the thought of her grandchildren.
Eugenie and her husband Jack Brooksbank had baby August in 2021, just a few months before Princess Beatrice welcomed a daughter, Sienna, with husband Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi. ‘To the point that I’ve got FOMO,’ she says with a laugh. ‘That I worry he’s a better grandparent than me! And it’s lovely to see after what he’s been through. He was always very good with his mum, who adored him. And now he’s very good as a grandfather.’
Sarah Ferguson with the corgis
With the late Queen’s corgis, Sandy and Muick, who were entrusted to her Credit: Instagram
Our time together is coming to an end, and Sarah is ordering a slice of the Chocolate Nemesis cake to take away, because, she tells our waitress, ‘my ex-husband loves it’.
The Duchess has probably already said more than she planned to today. But there is one last thing I want to ask. The coronation is a little over two months away, so how significant does she think 6 May will be in terms of breathing fresh life into the institution she venerates?
‘I think it’ll be an extraordinary moment,’ she says. ‘And I feel really strongly that the King is brilliant. He upholds everything that is good. I mean, what he’s done for the environment! What he’s done in his life! How he loves to paint, how he loves to walk, how he loves to be.
‘He is a very special person. So for him to have a moment where everybody looks up and understands how hard he and the Royal family has worked, is important.’
It should, Sarah believes, ‘be a moment when the entire world will say, right: we’ve got this. And now we’ll unite again and go on again. We are not…’ she laughs, corrects herself, ‘they are not celebrities. They are part of an extraordinary institution, and they go out and do their work. That’s what I did when I became a princess.
‘Whatever happened, happened. We don’t go back. But whether I’m in or out, I’ll always uphold it.’