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The royal family

Just finished 'Spare'...

1000 replies

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 14/01/2023 22:02

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

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Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:15

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:13

@Eyerollcentral
I'm not disputing for one minute that Harry has worked in his mental health . He is very open about it
That was part of his growth

I'm saying that the royal PR machine uses 'mentally ill ' as slur against Harry , seeming unaware as to how tone deaf ( and wrong!) it is esp when they try to hijack mental health charities to boost their image

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/bold-claim-williams-staff-planted-stories-about-harrys-mental-health/C4WBQA2YCVCZXPPOXWYB5WSI4U/?outputType=amp

I don’t think it’s a very useful strategy for them to be honest. You seem to be convinced but as I’ve said both Diana and harry have been open about their mental health. Not sure there is the conspiracy here you think there is

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:15

@Coxspurplepippin
What ! Evidence of leaks ?!
Like evidence of the affair you
mean ?

Journalists have stated that 'oalace sources' inform them

And Harry states it clearly in his book - I assume that isn't good enough for you

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 19:16

@Novella4 People appear to be able to make up all kind of lies if it is about Harry or Meghan, armchair psychiatric conditions, and hope they divorce, and it is somehow acceptable.

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 19:16

Eyerollcentral You say Harry is mentally ill. Is that a loving concern or a smear?

Roussette · 15/01/2023 19:18

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:10

You being super defensive won’t delete my posts 🤷‍♀️Maybe don’t go round coming out with rope you can’t support in the first place

What on earth is the matter with you? You challenged me. I immediately answered you and acknowledged I didn't know. That should've been the end of it. But no.

You are just not giving up are you? How many times do I have to say 'who knows'? How many times do I have to say to you 'OK I assumed'.

What do you actually want from me, I am at a loss. I imagine you are trying to make me lose my temper with you or something, it is most peculiar. I am not being defensive, I am being polite and answering you. But won't anymore.

Just drop it now please, you are making yourself look ridiculous keeping on when someone has acknowledged 5 posts ago that they didn't know which interview was recorded first.

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:18

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 19:16

Eyerollcentral You say Harry is mentally ill. Is that a loving concern or a smear?

It’s certainly not a slur. I have quite a lot of experience of mental illness in a personal and professional capacity. In my opinion Harry exhibits a lot of signs of being mentally unwell in his words and actions.

Coxspurplepippin · 15/01/2023 19:19

The claims of leaks in that NZ Herald piece come from Omid Scobie for heaven's sake. Omid Scobie, upright bastion and purveyor of leaks coming from Harry and Meghan troof.

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:20

Roussette · 15/01/2023 19:18

What on earth is the matter with you? You challenged me. I immediately answered you and acknowledged I didn't know. That should've been the end of it. But no.

You are just not giving up are you? How many times do I have to say 'who knows'? How many times do I have to say to you 'OK I assumed'.

What do you actually want from me, I am at a loss. I imagine you are trying to make me lose my temper with you or something, it is most peculiar. I am not being defensive, I am being polite and answering you. But won't anymore.

Just drop it now please, you are making yourself look ridiculous keeping on when someone has acknowledged 5 posts ago that they didn't know which interview was recorded first.

Harry is not the only one who doesn’t like being questioned…you are maybe taking this thread a bit too seriously.

Roussette · 15/01/2023 19:23

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 19:16

@Novella4 People appear to be able to make up all kind of lies if it is about Harry or Meghan, armchair psychiatric conditions, and hope they divorce, and it is somehow acceptable.

Yes. Meghan has been called a narcissit hundreds of times by the armchair psychologists. All as a slur.

Coxspurplepippin · 15/01/2023 19:27

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:15

@Coxspurplepippin
What ! Evidence of leaks ?!
Like evidence of the affair you
mean ?

Journalists have stated that 'oalace sources' inform them

And Harry states it clearly in his book - I assume that isn't good enough for you

Not really. It's one of those things that people say, without any need to provide proof. If there are adverse rumours about Harry and Meghan they're all leaks, slurs etc. If there are adverse rumours about Charles, William etc, it's all trooooooo. You can't have it both ways.

Journalists claiming 'palace sources' could, heaven forfend, be fibbing. Or their source could be someone who has an opinion and once delivered a pizza to Nott Cott.

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 19:29

Definition of gaslighting. Step 1 - deny your reality. Step 2 - say there's something wrong with you. Step 3 - do step 1 and step 2 over and over again.

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 19:30

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:13

@Eyerollcentral
I'm not disputing for one minute that Harry has worked in his mental health . He is very open about it
That was part of his growth

I'm saying that the royal PR machine uses 'mentally ill ' as slur against Harry , seeming unaware as to how tone deaf ( and wrong!) it is esp when they try to hijack mental health charities to boost their image

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/bold-claim-williams-staff-planted-stories-about-harrys-mental-health/C4WBQA2YCVCZXPPOXWYB5WSI4U/?outputType=amp

The only place mental illness is a slur is in the minds of people like you. One in four of us experience a mental illness in our life time. Your “anorexia” comment about Kate just shows what kind of person you are.

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:33

@Coxspurplepippin

"Palace sources claim there are no palace sources "

Mmkay ...

derxa · 15/01/2023 19:35

www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_royal_family/4717181-the-ludgrove-matron?page=1
While you are worrying about wrongly labelling poor Harry the anecdote about the bullying of the Ludgrove house mother should bring you back to Earth.

Coxspurplepippin · 15/01/2023 19:36

Novella4 · 15/01/2023 19:33

@Coxspurplepippin

"Palace sources claim there are no palace sources "

Mmkay ...

But you have no more proof that there are than I have that there aren't. Do you agree that journalists sometimes make stuff up?

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:37

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 19:29

Definition of gaslighting. Step 1 - deny your reality. Step 2 - say there's something wrong with you. Step 3 - do step 1 and step 2 over and over again.

Lol but harry was the one who said his reality was that he needed help??? Who is denying his reality?! It is like you have a random post generator.

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:38

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 19:30

The only place mental illness is a slur is in the minds of people like you. One in four of us experience a mental illness in our life time. Your “anorexia” comment about Kate just shows what kind of person you are.

Yes very much so. A lot of people giving themselves away here

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 19:39

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 19:30

The only place mental illness is a slur is in the minds of people like you. One in four of us experience a mental illness in our life time. Your “anorexia” comment about Kate just shows what kind of person you are.

Are you actually denying that accusations of mental illness are used as a slur to discredit people? That’s what gaslighting refers to: denying someone’s account of reality and implying they’re mentally ill in order to manipulate them.

Claiming someone is mentally ill when they’re clearly not you just don’t like what they’re saying is unacceptable.

Blossomtoes · 15/01/2023 19:41

Are you actually denying that accusations of mental illness are used as a slur to discredit people?

Did you read what I wrote? I know people do that. The poster I quoted just did it.

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:42

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 19:39

Are you actually denying that accusations of mental illness are used as a slur to discredit people? That’s what gaslighting refers to: denying someone’s account of reality and implying they’re mentally ill in order to manipulate them.

Claiming someone is mentally ill when they’re clearly not you just don’t like what they’re saying is unacceptable.

Do you mean in the world, ever? Of course people do that. This thread is discussing Harry. In relation to Harry, no people aren’t using mental illness as a slur to discredit him.

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 19:46

Lol but harry was the one who said his reality was that he needed help??? Who is denying his reality?! It is like you have a random post generator

I see Harry's book is his reality. Are you denying his reality and also saying there's something wrong with him.

And if I have a random post generator - does that mean there's something wrong with me.

Mirabai · 15/01/2023 19:56

Eyerollcentral · 15/01/2023 19:42

Do you mean in the world, ever? Of course people do that. This thread is discussing Harry. In relation to Harry, no people aren’t using mental illness as a slur to discredit him.

Of course they are. What particular mental illness do they think he’s suffering from?

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 19:57

@Inkanta Have you read the book? Where has he said he needs help and what with?
And by the way it is normal to need help at various times. That does not mean you are a narcissist or mentally ill or about to get divorced.

Roussette · 15/01/2023 20:00

And by the way it is normal to need help at various times. That does not mean you are a narcissist or mentally ill or about to get divorced

This ^^

Inkanta · 15/01/2023 20:11

babsanderson · 15/01/2023 19:57

@Inkanta Have you read the book? Where has he said he needs help and what with?
And by the way it is normal to need help at various times. That does not mean you are a narcissist or mentally ill or about to get divorced.

I haven't made any comments about that but I want to know why mental illness keeps cropping up on here. Feels a bit off. Nearly finished the book yes.

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