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The royal family

Just finished 'Spare'...

1000 replies

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 14/01/2023 22:02

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

OP posts:
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GoingtotheWinchester · 14/01/2023 22:59

Your final paragraph is all I care about. The RF are a dysfunctional family and not one anyone should be looking up to. Be gone the lot of them.

Boulshired · 14/01/2023 22:59

Other than the fact he admits his memory is dodgy, I also found the book an enjoyable read but that there is too much ghost writer and not enough Harry. There are too many parts when Harry just doesn’t speak at all like the book, his vocabulary and use of language is nowhere near as colourful as in the book. Whilst the ghostwriter is there for interpretation it just felt too far. Probably why I feel the book versus the documentary and interviews seem at odds with each other.

KnickerlessKage · 14/01/2023 22:59

Also, I’m a poc from a commonwealth country. I wouldn’t want them to represent the commonwealth as Harry has been openly racist a few times, and Meghan is an American with no connection to the commonwealth. And if you’re insinuating she should represent it because she is a poc, that is incredibly offensive. Tokenism is not the way forward, and I doubt Meghan herself would want to be defined forevermore by that one singular characteristic. Really irritates me when people put that forward as a good idea, just a blatant attempt of virtue signalling. That’s actually tone deaf and culturally insensitive.

And reading the book, got the impression his drug usage is far more extensive than what he admits to. He certainly fits a certain type, Peter Pan mentality, thinks he’s being reflective when he’s being self absorbed, romanticises drug taking. Also his ‘Ayahuasca Tourism’ - 🙄guess he still isn’t very culturally aware.

Orangetreexherry · 14/01/2023 23:00

I don't intend to read the whining book, few days ago I caught myself comparing two royalties -'just Harry', who refuses to give up the titles BTW, and American political royalty John Kennedy Jr- one is always complaining about everything, the other ones famously said when asked how hard it must be to for him re people's expectation 'I am grateful for the opportunities that come with my family'. Shame on Haz (as Meg calls him)

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 14/01/2023 23:05

I refuse to read it. For him to do what he has done to his family as they grieve for the Queen is beyond disgusting. He doesn't want to be part of RF? Fine. Go away. No need to do what he's doing. None at all.

Anthillmobontherun · 14/01/2023 23:07

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 14/01/2023 23:05

I refuse to read it. For him to do what he has done to his family as they grieve for the Queen is beyond disgusting. He doesn't want to be part of RF? Fine. Go away. No need to do what he's doing. None at all.

Agree

Eyerollcentral · 14/01/2023 23:09

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 14/01/2023 22:02

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

It’s interesting because I can’t believe we read the same book based on your summary.
Harry comes across as venal, consumed by petty jealousies and incredibly self centred. The tone is often more Partridge than Alan Partridge. He seems to have little awareness or interest in the world around. He is ill informed and gives me the impression he believes himself to be smarter than he is. His comments when stationed in Afghanistan regarding the enemy (I.e. any Afghan) are jaw dropping my simplistic. He believe they are all evil because someone told him they are the enemy. He has zero intellectual curiosity.
Even in his own account he flies off the handle at the drop of a hat. He is rude and churlish. He recounts being flown by Elton John by private jet to his home in Ibiza where he confirms he and his family were accommodated in high style and waited on hand and foot. Nonetheless the ungrateful brat decides to tear strips off Elton for publishing a serialisation of his autobiography in the Daily Mail whilst sitting around Elton’s pool, drinking Elton’s drinks. How Elton, himself famously short tempered, didn’t tell him to take a running jump I will never know.
Who knows if the exchange took place anyway. Harry claims he was able to quote to Elton a statement he had made about his previous court case against the Daily Mail. Sorry from the impression made in the book I cannot believe he would have been able to do that. He is the most unreliable of narrators. Leaving aside all the clangers that have been shown in the press to be factually incorrect, the huge gaps in events and one sided conversations he records serve only to highlight that Harry is deliberately leaving out elements that he knows will be unflattering to him and to Meghan which creates an underlying tone of devious dishonesty. He is adept at using emotive ideas to manipulate the reader in to pitying him. Not one thing in his life is ever his fault.
The CONSTANT references to Diana are upsetting for the reader as he comes across as completely obsessed. Whether that is the case in reality or he is just obsessed with reminding everyone as often as possible that I am Diana’s half orphaned son is hard to tell but you cannot help but worry about what goes on inside his head. A frightening place.
I do agree the ghost writer has done a wonderful job in capturing Harry’s voice. I have to say though if the Palace PR machine manipulated anything most successfully it has been in previously having the public believe that Harry was likeable. He does not come across as a guy you’d like to have a drink with.
The glowing hagiography of Meghan is utterly nauseating because it is so completely over the top. The most hilarious parts of the book are where Harry keeps bringing up Meghan’s role in suits as if it were the lead role in the world’s most popular show. He is amazed people don’t recognise her in shops (despite himself never having heard of the show before they started dating!!). I laughed my head off when Meghan and Harry first went to meet Charles and Camilla for tea. Charlie greets her warmly and says I believe you are the star of a soap opera. Harry is dumbfounded and Meghan cooly answers that she stars in a drama broadcast in the evening on cable TV about lawyers. It’s hardly the RSC but both seem thoroughly affronted and astounded that Charles (whose interests throughout are described as distinctly high brow) had never heard of the show and didn’t seem to discern how it was any different to a soap opera.
I’m not a royalist and I bar the gos I really do not gaf what happens to the British Royal Family, but Harry’s sad and self destructive tale doesn’t prove the institution is not fit for purpose. Harry is the only one of his generation to have consistently behaved appallingly. I think it’s myopic to believe this is all down to Harry being targeted.
Ungrateful and angry and heading rapidly for a fall are my take always from the book. Harry is extremely frustrating because at every turn when you genuinely feel for him he follows it up with a comment so staggeringly stupid or angry or self serving that any goodwill is shredded. In short the guy is a plonker, but a very angry, spoilt and dangerous one. A good read though, you fly through it.

Youwhatnowbiggles · 14/01/2023 23:09

No decent person sells out their loved ones for cash. I think he’s spent too long on the wacky baccy and has now spent so long being introspective he can no longer see further than himself. I hope he gets some help.

Theunamedcat · 14/01/2023 23:10

He honestly expected to monetise the royal family using his half in half out model to represent the royal family in the commonwealth (like a self styled king and queen of the commonwealth) using money and security paid for by the British taxpayers and got pissy when they were told no

Harry has never really been told no he was allowed to keep his beard as the "spare" but the "heir" had to shave he tantrummed about being allowed on the front line granny let him he has always got his way he got her to do the skit with the Obamas etc etc and so on meghan was given special treatment and privileges even kate never had no-one had ever had the treatment she did as a mere girlfriend or even fiance so I suppose I can understand why it would be a suprise the word no after all this time but seriously let it go haz let it fucking go

comedycentral · 14/01/2023 23:10

I agree with you OP!

Theunamedcat · 14/01/2023 23:13

Also meghan isn't Diana he is trying DESPERATELY to make her into his mother she will grow cold over this the constant mommy mommy rhetoric will get to her in the end and she will run

And I won't blame her

Museya15 · 14/01/2023 23:13

Theunamedcat · 14/01/2023 23:10

He honestly expected to monetise the royal family using his half in half out model to represent the royal family in the commonwealth (like a self styled king and queen of the commonwealth) using money and security paid for by the British taxpayers and got pissy when they were told no

Harry has never really been told no he was allowed to keep his beard as the "spare" but the "heir" had to shave he tantrummed about being allowed on the front line granny let him he has always got his way he got her to do the skit with the Obamas etc etc and so on meghan was given special treatment and privileges even kate never had no-one had ever had the treatment she did as a mere girlfriend or even fiance so I suppose I can understand why it would be a suprise the word no after all this time but seriously let it go haz let it fucking go

Couldn’t agree more. Absolute brat!

Logicalreasoning · 14/01/2023 23:14

I have no intention of reading it, purely because I don’t give one about the royals, but unfortuntley it’s all the media cares about so you always get some story shoved in your face no matter how much you try to avoid it. problem is OP you will get a lot of royalists that are blinded by thier passion for them to even think that there is any truth to his admissions. I never have liked Meghan, even as an actress I couldn’t stand her. I do think she used Harry as a platform but actually believe she does love him. Every one thinks william is a saint so naturally anything written about him will get instantly quashed. I think it’s great Harry wrote the book, if it is in fact all true then what we are being led to believe as outsiders is in fact bollocks. It’s good to know even the royal family has heavy drama 😁

Shampern · 14/01/2023 23:23

I like Eyerollcentral's summary because it makes references to the text and doesn't just tell us what we already know.

Eyerollcentral · 14/01/2023 23:24

ImAvingOops · 14/01/2023 22:35

I think H has some legitimate complaints - the RF needs to focus more on the family aspect and less on the royal, if they don't want this kind of fallout. And yes, some of the press have behaved appallingly.

But, I believe M never googled H? Do I fuck! And their narrative of nasty, racist Britain and the commonwealth being empire part 2, while retaining their titles and capitalising on their relationship with Britain and the RF, pisses me right off.
I think Britain is pretty decent on the whole, and takes a live and live live approach to most things, but hypocrisy (and dishonesty)gets right on our wick!

Omg the constant reiterating x y and z proves Meghan hadn’t googled me is so lol. One has to wonder why both of them are so invested in ensuring this point is drummed home. Also again shows that Harry will believe anything he is told, he really wants to believe it’s true. There must be some where deep down where he knows it isn’t true.

NowThatsWhatICall22 · 14/01/2023 23:28

pocketvenuss · 14/01/2023 22:31

Interesting that those who have read the book end up sympathetic. Those that hate on H&M have not read the book. They base their hatred on tabloid spin

No, I base my opinion on the fact it’s a book I have no interest in reading.

TaRaDeBumDeAy · 14/01/2023 23:31

Sorry op, you lost me at he had a hard time growing up.

I'd like that sort of hard life, thanks, rather than a real hard life 👍🏼

He wouldn't know hard life if it jumped up and smacked him in the face.

Although maybe it was that awful, walking around in too tight diamond shoes.

ImAvingOops · 14/01/2023 23:35

I watched the whole Netflix series. I can't face reading the book as well!
I don't hate H & M - I reserve hatred for actual evil people. And I do feel very sorry for him re Diana and the expectations of him in the wake of what happened. And I think there are some legitimate complaints.
But, I can't get on board with this notion of H & M being so hard done by. And I think it's no coincidence that M is alienated from most of her family and now H is alienated from most of his!
Maybe I'd take them more seriously if they gave up the titles and stopped capitalising on them.

Teatime55 · 14/01/2023 23:37

It’s clear Charles wasn’t particularly interested in family life and wasn’t a brilliant parent. Probably not his fault.
The most important part is recognising this and not doing the same, which both him and William are doing. So get over it. If you aren’t happy, do it differently. He has the time and money on his side.
Everything comes from a negative viewpoint. What’s wrong. How I was treated wrong. I can’t see this is healthy

UWhatNow · 14/01/2023 23:40

I think that you, and so many of the posters here have failed to remember that this is one person’s side of the story.

He’s flawed, his wife appears to alienate everyone she meets and many of the anecdotes are already being discredited as being factually inaccurate. If you are falling for this narrative hook, line and sinker then I doubt your critique is worth much.

Mañanarama · 14/01/2023 23:43

I think he’s gone about things in a really cackhanded manner, and he’s gone too far. The book is his truth, but we’ll never know the other side of the story and the actual truth is probably somewhere in between .

That said I have a lot of sympathy for how appallingly he and Meghan were treated by our scummy tabloid media, who really are a disgusting and immoral bunch of headline grabbing morally deficient arseholes.

If anything good comes of this, it needs to stop the bullying of anyone by the British gutter press. Enough is enough.

toomuchlaundry · 14/01/2023 23:44

@Beachbabe1 I thought they had criticised the concept of Commonwealth in interviews comparing it to the Empire, so why would they want to lead it?

How do people who think the book is good reconcile some of the backtracking there have been in some later interviews and bringing W&K’s children into his arguments?

Eyerollcentral · 14/01/2023 23:45

Teatime55 · 14/01/2023 23:37

It’s clear Charles wasn’t particularly interested in family life and wasn’t a brilliant parent. Probably not his fault.
The most important part is recognising this and not doing the same, which both him and William are doing. So get over it. If you aren’t happy, do it differently. He has the time and money on his side.
Everything comes from a negative viewpoint. What’s wrong. How I was treated wrong. I can’t see this is healthy

I don’t agree about Charles. I’m not a fan of his generally but you can see from even Harry’s version of events he did love his sons and has done his best to try and help Harry. He has wisely counselled him and Harry refused to listen. He has shown him compassion and love every single time he messed up. Harry includes a paragraph where he says Charles found it difficult to talk about his emotions but he would often find a note on his pillow telling him how proud he was of him and how much he loved him. I found that very touching. He clearly did spend a lot of time with them playing as young children because Harry then says that declined as the years went on because Charles was too old to run around like a lunatic playing with them any more. He taught him to drive and they seemed to have had a lot of one on one time. Harry lived with him until he was 28. It’s clear there was a loving relationship between them

TheaBrandt · 14/01/2023 23:48

Havent read it yet my view is that this anachronistic and frankly mad system of elevating one family is outdated and dreadful and causes great harm - manifesting in poor Harry.

TimeToFlyNow · 14/01/2023 23:51

Teatime55 · 14/01/2023 23:37

It’s clear Charles wasn’t particularly interested in family life and wasn’t a brilliant parent. Probably not his fault.
The most important part is recognising this and not doing the same, which both him and William are doing. So get over it. If you aren’t happy, do it differently. He has the time and money on his side.
Everything comes from a negative viewpoint. What’s wrong. How I was treated wrong. I can’t see this is healthy

Thing is Charles says the same about the queen's parenting in his book. He obviously didn't learn much from his upbringing

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