Just finished 'Spare'...

[HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed]

… and I encourage anyone who’s even vaguely interested in this story to give it a read. Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

I wasn’t a Harry and Meghan hater before reading this, but I wasn’t a fan girl either. Like many Brits, I find a lot of Americans- especially West Coast Americans- quite irritating and Meghan firmly falls into that camp for me. I’m sure she’s nice enough, but she’s very American and very perky and much like Wednesday Addams, I don’t do perky. However, I suspect that her intentions and generally good and that like most of us she’s got good and bad qualities. She’s clearly ambitious and I think that she probably initially dated Harry based on that ambition and on getting a platform, although I think that she genuinely loves him now.

The ghost writer has done a great job at capturing Harry’s personality I think; he comes across as introspective and thoughtful but funny and bright.

I think that Harry has a good soul; I think that he’s kind and has had a hard time of it growing up. I also think he’s a bit clueless and naive and has been in a bubble, but I think he acknowledges that and wants to understand and change. Undoubtedly losing his mother at the age he was had more of an outward impact on him than it had on William. He’s also been a victim of his dad’s wishywashy parenting. It sounds like- and looks like to me from my vantage point as a normal citizen who knows bugger all except what I’ve seen in the media- that Charles has been there for his kids to an extent, but not in a hands on or especially useful way. It also seems clear that Charles has always put Camilla first. From almost the moment Diana died it seems that he wanted, above everything else, to rehabilitate Camilla’s image so that they could marry. I think that he put that above being a father and the way Harry writes about their relationship makes that clear too.

I also think that it’s suited the palace to portray Harry as dimwitted and feckless to show William in a better light and that Harry has every right to be angry about that and not want to play that game anymore (and to call it out now). Especially as it’s obvious that the palace haven’t kept up their side of the bargain and protected Harry from the media in return.

I also think that the media have treated H and M poorly and it’s clearly the case that the palace has used them and news stories about them to divert from other newsworthy problems… certainly Prince Andrew, perhaps William’s affair/s. Is Harry overly jumpy about the media and the paparazzi in particular? Yes, of course. Who wouldn’t be with his background. But they’ve also obviously been hounded and harassed.

I do think that Harry is on a journey that he isn’t at the end of yet, but I think that he realises that too. I think that he was always going to leave the royal family and that Meghan didn’t cause what’s happened, she was just the catalyst for it. I think that he’s been scapegoated and an afterthought within his nuclear family and I don’t blame him for being angry. I think that he means well and is essentially good. And I don’t think that anyone who’s read the whole book would be able to disagree.

More than anything I think it’s clear that the British Royal Family is no longer fit for purpose; the way they live, bring up their children, pay their members for work and demand unrealistic levels of protocol and formality is no longer working in the 21st century. These people need purpose and lives beyond the crown and those on the edges of the heir shouldn’t have to live their lives in service of the their. Realistically H and M could have worked as royals and had private interests, the RF chose not to bend to help them live fulfilling lives because of its own, outdated reasons.

They must be spending millions on PR I do agree with you there. I don’t agree people are emboldened by a toxic media when criticising H and M, although obviously there are some right lunatics who post horrendous things. However a lot of people distrust H and M’s versions of some events not because they are hateful or racists, they distrust them because they have been evasive and not entirely straightforward. That’s the risk with this kind of strategy, it can undermine your own credibility. Most people are actually quite sophisticated in their consumption of media. Some people of course will accept whatever someone tells them online or in the paper unthinkingly. But many more use their own judgment in assessing the information being presented to them, who is presenting it and why.

Tbf nearly all the royal males are cut from the same cloth all seem to have affairs and be uber privileged and entitled. If there was any fairness the succession should follow down the female line, arise Queen Anne ! The best monarchs, if we must have such a beauty contest are QE1,Victoria and the late Queen Elizabeth. But rather than that I would have their constitutional importance and privilge end and as a country we engage as grown up citizens who can decide who we want as Head of State and free the Windsors to live a life of wealth in well earned obscurity (that will never happen!) and without the people thinking that they owe them something in return.
@vera99 I love the concept of Free the Windsors. Why should they have to endure wealth, status, extra marital affairs, privilege? Why not have a campaign to relieve them from this burden. Can't you just imagine the public rallies, the placards, the outpouring of sympathy from their subjects for their plight?

I'll be reading the book at some point. I've seen the Netflix show and a few recent interviews. I think Harry comes over well, he seems genuine. He's taken the brave path, telling his story. I think he realises that he either does that or lives in hiding with the press constantly trying to sniff him, his family, his kids out, while his money dwindles (3 million per year for security?).

Why hide? He's done nothing wrong.

Why not tell the truth? Only toxic families are so secretive about what goes on.

Why keep quiet about his family when they didn't do the same for him? I know he says he wants reconciliation but I think he realises that it won't happen. Not unless the optics are good for them, which makes it more like theatre.

Or... Are they all in on it? This is a fantastic way to increase all of the Royals' profiles, make them human and relevant for the modern age. The storyline for this can be spun out so much, it would be like 50 seasons of a TV drama. Modern royals= Jeremy Kyle 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised.

I say, get rid of the monarchy and get a cheaper, better looking cast. Personally I'm hoping for more male nudity.

🎤 ⬇️

Also, is it just me or does no one else catch on that the British tabloids are essentially bullying and blackmailing the BRF and head of state? Why are people ok with this?

Yes me too queentim

Press freedom in the UK was actually established to allow papers to criticise the monarchy and their actions without fear. Of course the press should scrutinise the royal family, but I really don’t follow what you mean about them bullying the Monarch??

Not planning to read it - however I am still shocked that the big first meeting with the queen that Harry thought it was cool that Meghan turned up in jeans. I mean I didn’t even do that when I met my in-laws. 😂

Agree absolutely with every word you’ve said @HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed

I haven’t heard that - have you got a link? She did say that she met W&K wearing ripped jeans and barefoot, plus she’s a hugger! But I’ve never seen it mentioned that she met the Queen in jeans!

I guess it's the faux concern for the institution when they would turn on it in an instant if they weren't going hell to leather on H&M for identifying them as the chief villians. They have a long record of rightly, 4th Estate scurrilous commentary on the Royals. One can imagine a contemporary thread in Ye Olde Mumsnet in 1792 having a go at the disgusting cartoonist James Gillray whilst guffawing discretely with friends over sherry in their drawing rooms having bought a reproduction for a penny from a street urchin.

Without publicity the RF lose their reason to exists - they need the pomp,occasion,crowds and applause or we , the people will abolish them. And that's where they need to have the pact with the devil - with someone as seeming blameless and near perfect as the Queen there was little cause for concern. But that ship has now sailed.....

Like other satirists of the 18th century, Gillray’s imagination was vividly excremental. But the bowel movements of a reigning monarch were pretty much taboo in visual satire until Gillray’s “Taking Physick “(1792), which shows Pitt the Younger bursting in upon George III and his consort, Queen Charlotte, as they squat on their latrine.

Pitt brings with him confirmation that the King of Sweden has been assassinated, news that has a laxative effect on the terrified George III. Two centuries on, imagine the uproar were Elizabeth II to be depicted in the same manner.

I just checked the book and Harry says M was in jeans and a jumper but in fairness she was only told when they were driving Liz would be at Windsor when they got there

I’m wondering how many UK citizens would prefer it if the media weren’t allowed to criticise the monarchy - on grounds of ‘treason’ say - as happens in some countries?

Lese-majeste - you can go to prison for 15 years in Thailand or even die in mysterious circumstances for criticism one of the richest and bizarre royal families in the world. Thankfully and partly owing to the fact we have executed a couple down the centuries there is no chance of that. Though had Hitler won and Edward 8th been installed as a Regent as has been suggested by some researchers who knows what the quislings would have done. He probably should have been executed as a traitor after the war - but they are pretty much above the law and would have damaged 'the institution'.

www.independent.co.uk/news/media/tv-radio/edward-viii-traitor-ww2-documentary-b2043974.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9

Yeah press freedom right. Do you really need it spelling out.

He does not come across as a guy you’d like to have a drink with

Really!

I would draw the line at a line though - horrible drug.

Wow you are very invested OP.

@HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed

Especially if what’s been leaked has made you at all angry, because I think in context everything makes a lot of sense.

Please give the context for

The bullying of the matron
Not knowing where he was when that queen mother died
The chess pieces

People keep referring to context means it makes sense but rarely give the context.

Sounds like you've swallowed it all then !.

Perfectly said!

I agree with you OP. I also agree with a PP who also noticed the full weight of the establishment trying to rubbish the book and spin it in the days before it came out.

I listen to BBC6 music and the half hour news reports on the day of publication were quite something. For example ‘Queues were expected for the launch at X store but only one woman was by herself at opening’ (aka nobody cares to hear Harry’s side which was proved a lie the next day when the initial sales figures came in). Or ‘Prince Harry continues his ‘attack’ on the Royal Family…’. (as if Harry is just plain crazy and the RF and the Palace staff are all meek innocent defenceless victims).

It was all quite transparent stuff and shows just how wedded the establishment and media are. If you step out of line, the full weight of the establishment comes at you from all angles. Historians will love this episode, as it shows how multifaceted and powerful the establishment is and lifts a lid on how the British class system works to keep order. You do not fuck with Royalty or the Upper Classes. For example the owner of the Daily Mail is a Lord. These people must protect the hierarchy at all costs.

Every honour, every civic opening , every garden party at Buckingham Palace , every oath sworn by the armed forces, every state occasion and royal event the whole weight of history and belonging to something much bigger than ourselves is part of the identity of what it means to be British and particularly so for older people.

Given the longevity and service of the late Queen which really took us from the aftermath of a hugely destructive war to the 21st Century it's not surprising that so many feel fiercely protective of the institution and are hopeful that the magic fairy dust of monarchy can effortlessly transfer to her heir and sucessors.

But that heir is ageing and with his ageing consort and is having to operate under the full glare of social media and public accountability and scrutiny in a country divided and hurting through Brexit, covid and the economic crisis we are heading into. We are tangibly a once great country in decline and I'm fairly certain preservation of the institution isn't part of the solution nor is it fair to its hapless inhabitants who had no choice in the matter.

Now his son has shed his own searchlight into the heart of the beast and it turns out they are just as fallible and dysfunctional as most of us probably are but hugely privileged and pampered and demanding behind the scenes wanting advantageous tax arrangements and treatments denied ordinary people.

I want to hear his story in his words because at this point I feel like the British media are radicalising the British public against Prince Harry and that's the real story here.

Yes Vera well said. Radicalising is the word by the way. Harry with all his flaws is telling it as it is - that IS the real story. I'm listening to him - not the press anymore.

‘I want to hear his story in his words because at this point I feel like the British media are radicalising the British public against Prince Harry and that's the real story here.’

I’ve never thought of it that way but I agree with the radicalisation of the public by the media. The DM are obsessed. If you go on DM online, you have to scroll down for ages before you pass all of the H&M stories. They’ve written more than the equivalent of 20 of Harry’s books alone, never mind all the other media outlets. So why can’t Harry say his piece?

Greyhave · Yesterday 22:55
I think it’s become clear to everyone with eyes now that everything H&M said about the RF and the tabloids was true. It’s been one massively out of context story after another every day since the Netflix documentary.
Despite all the haters out there I don’t believe the RF are going to come out of this on top.

How on earth people can think anything, never mind "everything" the book says is true.
Even H has admitted his memory is dodgy. And anyone who trashes his family publicly, for money, when he isn't even poor, deserves condemnation.

Listening to my bedside radio this morning, only half awake, I think I heard something about the RF considering how a reconciliation might be arranged!
No, don't do it! Meghan doesn't "do" family harmony, and Harry won't have meetings without her. He'd come home to find her in tears on the floor.
Still, material for more books....