Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

The royal family

Harry and Meghan - lies?

1000 replies

FurAndFeathers · 28/10/2022 19:51

Ok I’m keeping my fingers crossed this thread will not descend into an unsubstantiated bun fight! Please bear with me.

I’m definitely no Royalist, and am pretty ambivalent about H and M but from the little I’ve read they seem to have been treated pretty badly. However I keep seeing on other threads here that their claims have all be proven to be lies, which would make me much less sympathetic to them. But I can’t find any verification for this.

So I’m asking more knowledgeable posters - what lies specifically have H&M told and where’s the evidence to the contrary please?

thank you

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Diverseopinions · 30/12/2022 17:59

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 16:11

Do you genuinely not see the unpleasantness in your post?

you aren’t ‘supporting Catherine’ you’re using her to make digs against Meghan before continuing with an unmasked attack on H&M

if you think that’s a good use of your emotional energy then crack on, but the faux-positivity fools no one.

No. I genuinely don't see the unpleasantness in suggesting that someone stops critisizing. It's going to hurt anybody to be critisized, but to be critisized on television when you haven't been warned of what is going to be said, must be awful. I fell sorry for members of the British RF.

I'm not making digs about anyone. A dig is a sly and subtle and slight attacks on someone. I'm being forthright and justifying my stance.

In a sense I am masked, because I use a pseudonym, like all posters. But I don't think there is anything wrong in critisizing what Meghan and Harry are doing. I'm open about my disapproval.

How can you think it is acceptable to say in a magazine article that you can be silent or you can speak out and you can be quiet until you choose not to be? Specifically, also, saying that you never signed anything to promise you won't speak about life with the British royals.

Is that not fighting talk and confrontational and saying, in no uncertain terms, that you have evil and injuring things that you can say about the Royal Family, when and if you choose?

Who do you know in real life, FurandFeathers who would ever say that?

Nobody, of course.

Can you not also identify signs of small courtesies shown to the couple at the Queen's funeral, such as room being made for them on the pew and walking alongside well-wishers with Kate and William? Harry wearing a uniform, which rules were bent to accommodate. I don't see any open unpleasantness being shown to H and M by W and K. The Royals are constantly trying to be conciliatory and kind to H and M. They've even retained those archaic titles. Tell me, don't you feel shocked and disbelieving by the way they want to hang on to them, when believing in egality and modern values?

Why would anybody want to critisize Meghan if she hadn't been dragging down the Royal Family? Most right-thinking thinking people don't critisize famous people unless their conduct is in some way undermining a public institution, or not in the public interest.

It seems to me that, instead of engaging in rational discussion, that you are just propagating this angle which is ' other people are being horribly mean!' and going for the emotional angle.

A lot of posters seem to do this on MN. It is ducking underneath the intellectual arguments and making it look to the casual reader as if the other person has been hateful. When this is done, it looks so incongruous. You get a: ' I can't believe how frightfully mean you have all been!' thrust into an ordinary discussion. It's very transparent what people are trying to do - it's to close down the arguments before they get undeniably compelling.

Ohnonevermind · 30/12/2022 18:01

@Diverseopinions

Good points

BethJ62 · 30/12/2022 18:07

@Diverseopinions

great post .

StormzyinaTCup · 30/12/2022 18:11

A lot of posters seem to do this on MN. It is ducking underneath the intellectual arguments and making it look to the casual reader as if the other person has been hateful. When this is done, it looks so incongruous. You get a: ' I can't believe how frightfully mean you have all been!' thrust into an ordinary discussion. It's very transparent what people are trying to do - it's to close down the arguments before they get undeniably compelling.

👏👏

Blip · 30/12/2022 18:11

@FurAndFeathers
"To be fair you don’t seem to appreciate any view that doesn’t align exactly with your own 😁"

Such a rude and immature thing to say.

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 18:14

Diverseopinions · 30/12/2022 17:59

No. I genuinely don't see the unpleasantness in suggesting that someone stops critisizing. It's going to hurt anybody to be critisized, but to be critisized on television when you haven't been warned of what is going to be said, must be awful. I fell sorry for members of the British RF.

I'm not making digs about anyone. A dig is a sly and subtle and slight attacks on someone. I'm being forthright and justifying my stance.

In a sense I am masked, because I use a pseudonym, like all posters. But I don't think there is anything wrong in critisizing what Meghan and Harry are doing. I'm open about my disapproval.

How can you think it is acceptable to say in a magazine article that you can be silent or you can speak out and you can be quiet until you choose not to be? Specifically, also, saying that you never signed anything to promise you won't speak about life with the British royals.

Is that not fighting talk and confrontational and saying, in no uncertain terms, that you have evil and injuring things that you can say about the Royal Family, when and if you choose?

Who do you know in real life, FurandFeathers who would ever say that?

Nobody, of course.

Can you not also identify signs of small courtesies shown to the couple at the Queen's funeral, such as room being made for them on the pew and walking alongside well-wishers with Kate and William? Harry wearing a uniform, which rules were bent to accommodate. I don't see any open unpleasantness being shown to H and M by W and K. The Royals are constantly trying to be conciliatory and kind to H and M. They've even retained those archaic titles. Tell me, don't you feel shocked and disbelieving by the way they want to hang on to them, when believing in egality and modern values?

Why would anybody want to critisize Meghan if she hadn't been dragging down the Royal Family? Most right-thinking thinking people don't critisize famous people unless their conduct is in some way undermining a public institution, or not in the public interest.

It seems to me that, instead of engaging in rational discussion, that you are just propagating this angle which is ' other people are being horribly mean!' and going for the emotional angle.

A lot of posters seem to do this on MN. It is ducking underneath the intellectual arguments and making it look to the casual reader as if the other person has been hateful. When this is done, it looks so incongruous. You get a: ' I can't believe how frightfully mean you have all been!' thrust into an ordinary discussion. It's very transparent what people are trying to do - it's to close down the arguments before they get undeniably compelling.

I genuinely don't see the unpleasantness in suggesting that someone stops critisizing. It's going to hurt anybody to be critisized

But I don't think there is anything wrong in critisizing what Meghan and Harry are doing.

ok so it’s not ok for them to openly and transparently talk about their family based on their lived experience, but it’s fine for you to anonymously criticise them on the internet.

got it 🙄

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁

tbh
i can barely follow your posts - they’re very rambling and I have no idea about the minutiae of the things you’re talking about - I didn’t watch the queens funeral and I have no idea what titles H&M do or don’t have. I simply don’t care that much about any of them🤷‍♀️

But I find the ‘point-scoring’ and documenting of these details by others, in order to nurse grievances against people they don’t know, and slag them off on the internet, quite fascinating

But as you said - its a positive channelling of your emotional energy, so it clearly brings you joy.

different strokes and all that

OP posts:
MarshaMelrose · 30/12/2022 18:17

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁

To be fair, H&M are full of hypocrisy. Maybe it's just catching?

Blip · 30/12/2022 18:19

Wow @FurAndFeathers
" I have no idea what titles H&M do or don’t have. I simply don’t care that much about any of them🤷‍♀️"

You'd have to have been hiding under a rock surely not to know that H&M are Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Seems quite an incongruous post for someone who has purposefully started a thread about them and then posted on it a hundred times.

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 18:24

Blip · 30/12/2022 18:19

Wow @FurAndFeathers
" I have no idea what titles H&M do or don’t have. I simply don’t care that much about any of them🤷‍♀️"

You'd have to have been hiding under a rock surely not to know that H&M are Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Seems quite an incongruous post for someone who has purposefully started a thread about them and then posted on it a hundred times.

And if you actually read my OP you’ll see my rationale for posting was that I actually don’t know that much about the detail of their lives and was looking for factual information, which I got from a number of posters earlier in this thread.

Thanks SO much for your contributions thoughts

Especially as we all now know the difference between hate and despise. Oh no - hang on - you never did explain that did you?
😁

OP posts:
FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 18:25

MarshaMelrose · 30/12/2022 18:17

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁

To be fair, H&M are full of hypocrisy. Maybe it's just catching?

Quite possibly!

there’s certainly plenty of it about!

OP posts:
Coronateachingagain · 30/12/2022 18:36

Blip · 30/12/2022 18:19

Wow @FurAndFeathers
" I have no idea what titles H&M do or don’t have. I simply don’t care that much about any of them🤷‍♀️"

You'd have to have been hiding under a rock surely not to know that H&M are Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Seems quite an incongruous post for someone who has purposefully started a thread about them and then posted on it a hundred times.

Nobody should care about these Duke/Duchess titles. They are honorary and meaningless in this day and age.

Markle does care about the Prince/princess titles as she thinks it would mean their children get free security paid for by the British taxpayers. That is the extent to which she cares or understands the meaning of these titles.

So I don't see why we should care any more than that!

meinteresamucho · 30/12/2022 18:55

They aren't entirely meaningless though. Meghan's whole post-Megxit career has been built on the titles.

Glindara · 30/12/2022 18:58

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 18:14

I genuinely don't see the unpleasantness in suggesting that someone stops critisizing. It's going to hurt anybody to be critisized

But I don't think there is anything wrong in critisizing what Meghan and Harry are doing.

ok so it’s not ok for them to openly and transparently talk about their family based on their lived experience, but it’s fine for you to anonymously criticise them on the internet.

got it 🙄

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁

tbh
i can barely follow your posts - they’re very rambling and I have no idea about the minutiae of the things you’re talking about - I didn’t watch the queens funeral and I have no idea what titles H&M do or don’t have. I simply don’t care that much about any of them🤷‍♀️

But I find the ‘point-scoring’ and documenting of these details by others, in order to nurse grievances against people they don’t know, and slag them off on the internet, quite fascinating

But as you said - its a positive channelling of your emotional energy, so it clearly brings you joy.

different strokes and all that

*ok so it’s not ok for them to openly and transparently talk about their family based on their lived experience, but it’s fine for you to anonymously criticise them on the internet.

got it 🙄

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁*

But it’s not an open and transparent talk as you are characterising it.

It is a 3 year “hint and run” one way mudslinger exercise - which is deliberately opaque and unconstructive - leaving a confused cloud over family members.

H&M should have been braver whistleblowers name and shame - display the evidence in a factual public way - demand change, better standards and a constructive resolution - and if that doesn’t happen name and shame that too in the public domain.

But maybe they are not able to present coherent facts with paper trail evidence of wrong doing by family members.

Maybe they have just flounced and flipped out in narcissistic rage of vindictiveness when they didn’t get the 1/2 in 1/2 out working within and leeching off the the vile racist parasitic hierarchical institution that they demanded, signed up to and swore loyalty to……and whilst they are slinging mud at this dreadful institution they still insist on branding themselves with their titles.

Serenster · 30/12/2022 19:06

But maybe they are not able to present coherent facts with paper trail evidence of wrong doing by family members.

And don’t forget the contemporaneous paper trail we have seen to date actually undermines their position, rather then supports it.

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 19:06

Glindara · 30/12/2022 18:58

*ok so it’s not ok for them to openly and transparently talk about their family based on their lived experience, but it’s fine for you to anonymously criticise them on the internet.

got it 🙄

Definitely no hypocrisy there then 😁*

But it’s not an open and transparent talk as you are characterising it.

It is a 3 year “hint and run” one way mudslinger exercise - which is deliberately opaque and unconstructive - leaving a confused cloud over family members.

H&M should have been braver whistleblowers name and shame - display the evidence in a factual public way - demand change, better standards and a constructive resolution - and if that doesn’t happen name and shame that too in the public domain.

But maybe they are not able to present coherent facts with paper trail evidence of wrong doing by family members.

Maybe they have just flounced and flipped out in narcissistic rage of vindictiveness when they didn’t get the 1/2 in 1/2 out working within and leeching off the the vile racist parasitic hierarchical institution that they demanded, signed up to and swore loyalty to……and whilst they are slinging mud at this dreadful institution they still insist on branding themselves with their titles.

Yes fair point - there probably wouldn’t be anywhere near this much speculation if they’d been clearer with their grievances (on some issues at least) or alternatively kept quiet if they weren’t willing to name and shame entirely

OP posts:
bakalava · 30/12/2022 19:08

Followers and detractors work together on SM including MN to amplify the message and expand the following of celebrities. It does not matter which 'side' you are on, whether you 'love' or 'hate' the celebrity, you are working towards the same goal and if polarization keeps you fighting then you are further swelling the bank balance of the same celebrity and SM resources and losing your time/money in playing their game. That is why celebrities who are not loved opt to be provocative or notorious instead. Anything to keep them relevant.

Glindara · 30/12/2022 19:09

m.youtube.com/channel/UCx_8ri2rYergbu_06VNSPlw

The Behaviour Panel are a group of 4 global experts in body language (long professional careers working with Military interrogation, G7 leaders etc) - they have done an analysis on the OW interview and the NF doc - all very enlightening to have these expert brains reviewing.

The don’t ever claim what “the truth” is regarding content but they can read moments of deception and contempt. You will have to watch to see who they see those behaviours in.

They also characterise the NF doc as “nothingness” - zero claims - just vagueness.

Also interestingly their forensic look at the doc shows where the NF editors are actually mocking H&M.

Blip · 30/12/2022 19:14

@Coronateachingagain
Nobody should care about these Duke/Duchess titles. They are honorary and meaningless in this day and age.

Markle does care about the Prince/princess titles as she thinks it would mean their children get free security paid for by the British taxpayers. That is the extent to which she cares or understands the meaning of these titles."

H&M care very much about their titles of Duke & Duchess hence why they use them.

Meghan is not labouring under any illusion that Prince and Princess titles have any bearing on security provision though. This is not the case and it beggars belief that she is unaware of this.

If H&M valued highly the free security funded by the uk taxpayer they would have chosen to remain in the UK at their home on the Windsor estate.

Blip · 30/12/2022 19:17

@FurAndFeathers
"Thanks SO much for your contributions thoughts

Especially as we all now know the difference between hate and despise. Oh no - hang on - you never did explain that did you?
😁"

Once again, how rude you are.

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 19:18

bakalava · 30/12/2022 19:08

Followers and detractors work together on SM including MN to amplify the message and expand the following of celebrities. It does not matter which 'side' you are on, whether you 'love' or 'hate' the celebrity, you are working towards the same goal and if polarization keeps you fighting then you are further swelling the bank balance of the same celebrity and SM resources and losing your time/money in playing their game. That is why celebrities who are not loved opt to be provocative or notorious instead. Anything to keep them relevant.

Absolutely - which is why I’m fascinated that those who hate them spend so much time energy and emotion doing so - in reality they’re just lining their pockets further.

silence would be a more strategic approach

OP posts:
Glindara · 30/12/2022 19:22

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 19:06

Yes fair point - there probably wouldn’t be anywhere near this much speculation if they’d been clearer with their grievances (on some issues at least) or alternatively kept quiet if they weren’t willing to name and shame entirely

And my point is that they never wanted to resolve anything either quietly with the family behind closed doors or publicly to bring about transformative institutional change……..they just wanted to personally monetise this opportunity - and they have succeeded in that.

There is no question that some parts of the media (U.K. and international) and SM have been abhorrently racist and this is not acceptable.

But there was also a huge welcome for MM and a lot of media and SM support in the U.K. - as evidenced and acknowledged by PH in the NF doc when he suggested that other members of the family were jealous of her appeal with the media and the public.

Both things were happening at once in the media. From a volume perspective I would guess the positive press was substantially more pre Mexit - but that doesn’t mean that there should not be negative press if there is evidence of a negative story - but it does mean there should never ever be one piece of racist or misogynistic or classic press.

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 19:26

Glindara · 30/12/2022 19:22

And my point is that they never wanted to resolve anything either quietly with the family behind closed doors or publicly to bring about transformative institutional change……..they just wanted to personally monetise this opportunity - and they have succeeded in that.

There is no question that some parts of the media (U.K. and international) and SM have been abhorrently racist and this is not acceptable.

But there was also a huge welcome for MM and a lot of media and SM support in the U.K. - as evidenced and acknowledged by PH in the NF doc when he suggested that other members of the family were jealous of her appeal with the media and the public.

Both things were happening at once in the media. From a volume perspective I would guess the positive press was substantially more pre Mexit - but that doesn’t mean that there should not be negative press if there is evidence of a negative story - but it does mean there should never ever be one piece of racist or misogynistic or classic press.

And my point is that they never wanted to resolve anything either quietly with the family behind closed doors or publicly to bring about transformative institutional change……..they just wanted to personally monetise this opportunity - and they have succeeded in that.

How would know what they did or didn’t try behind closed doors?
How would you know that?

OP posts:
Glindara · 30/12/2022 19:32

FurAndFeathers · 30/12/2022 19:26

And my point is that they never wanted to resolve anything either quietly with the family behind closed doors or publicly to bring about transformative institutional change……..they just wanted to personally monetise this opportunity - and they have succeeded in that.

How would know what they did or didn’t try behind closed doors?
How would you know that?

Let me tidy that up a bit for you:

And my point is that they probably never wanted to resolve anything either quietly with the family behind closed doors or publicly to bring about transformative institutional change……..they just wanted to personally monetise this opportunity - and they have succeeded in that.

Ohnonevermind · 30/12/2022 19:34

@Glindara

good posts

PicturesOfDogs · 30/12/2022 19:39

Aspiringmatriarch · 30/12/2022 13:57

Why does this make them look bad? They said Harry saw her on Instagram and asked a mutual friend who she was and that friend set them up.
And the Jason Knauf emails showed she wasn't keen to have anything to do with the Scobie book but was advised by Knauf/the Palace not to be obstructive to avoid the book becoming a hatchet job. But people still claim it was basically ghostwritten for her - she sent an email via Knauf with some background information. That's all.

The palace advised her to give Scobie details for the book?
I don’t remember that, will have to go and look through these emails

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.