'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

I would have thought his army experience would have given him some reality …. not sure what type of street smarts you need in an elite bubble in the hills behind L.A. - maybe it’s a different street smart where you have to be commercially and socially sharp to not get tied up in knots and turned over by the fast talking opportunist sharks that are agents, business managers, lawyers and PRs that they surround themselves with.

Harry and Andrew need to be removed - Harry because he no longer resides in the U.K. ( a requirement I think) and Andrew because he shouldn’t have any role at all .

I think Harry doesn’t do all that well with exams - he failed the basic computer exam at Sandhurst and then he failed his pilot theory and needed extra tuition before he could pass it (he wasn’t used as a Co Pilot Gunner in his first tour, just his second) so if they still have a captain-to-major exam (it used to be harder than people thought), I doubt he’d have passed. He has described exams as a “nightmare”.

He IS, on the other hand, very good at asking charities and their representatives about themselves and the work they do. All clips I’ve seen of him on engagements, he is excellent at asking good, open, relevant questions that give people an opportunity to showcase what they want to that day.

Absolutely agree with this!

It would be much more sensible for it to be Anne and Edward instead

That's exactly what I mean. He's never had to live in Meghan's world of hustling and dealing and being on the lookout for the next opportunity. He's just ripe for exploitation and is leaving his royal family exposed in the process.

I read that too. In fairness Harry's friends may have been boorish hooray Henrys that would annoy anyone outside of that circle.

Some of Harry’s long standing friends weren’t invited to the evening reception which caused a lot of upset especially as the Clooneys etc were there. I think Tom Inskip was one of the ones only at the church . I seem to recall he took the blame for some incident involving Harry so was upset . I need to Google that.

But MM would more be on it surely?

Although I think that she is likely to be v naive of striking multiple deals running into the hundreds of millions of dollars in a very short space of time as most of us would be.

@WalkingwithPilgrims

Sadly, I think the RF only have hope of him coming back to the fold if Meghan is off the scene.

How exactly would she be "off the scene" in this scenario of yours? Are you willing her to die so that Harry comes back "into the fold"? Or are you willing two people who seem to love each other to divorce, to the detriment of their very young children?

Right I'm with you, my counting skills were lacking.

I was forgetting Kate doesn't count. And Camilla as spouse isn't one of the 4.
So it must be Camilla as spouse, William, Harry, Andrew and Bea.

I don’t think @WalkingwithPilgrims is willing them to divorce. They’re just saying that’s the only likely way back for Harry. And they did say “sadly”.

The unpleasant tone of your post @MrsMaxDeWinter is why I don’t contribute to these threads.

Yes I think that there are two reasons - they have to physically work harder, smarter and brighter to at least neutralise the negativity thrown at them both by H&M and are aware that the world is watching their every micro expression…..so they need to counter this with numerous high profile jolly engagements.

And as always and now more than ever to keep interest and therefore funding in the Monarchy.

Pretty accurate observation.
Re “Dipping into savings” - It used to be the Taxpayer who maintained the Royal Palaces.

The RF is an institution, old and creaky, but that’s the whole point !

A lovely American man on a bus in London said to me
“In the USA 100 years is a long time, but 100 miles is nothing-
In Britain, it’s the other way round”

That’s very true.

MM thinking she could waltz in and change things was impossibly naive.

The loose lips aspect of MM would definitely have “Frightened the horses” and would stop easy conversation.

Trust is essential in any family.

I'm sure I read the Queen issued a sleepover invitation to all her grandchildren and great grandchildren and H&M received an invitation but declined it 12 days before she died. H&M were invited to Balmoral the previous year but did not go then either. W&K took their children.

That’s a bit of a reach!

Going on past history, it’s likely Harry will get “ The rings in the post” as MM goes off with someone she thinks can prove what she needs - Money and political clout.

Good grief , I don’t think anybody wants anything bad to happen to Meghan . I certainly don’t.
A divorce when there are children is always difficult but I honestly don’t think the marriage will last . Harry looks miserable and I am not just talking about at the funeral when that was understandable.
I read that Harry had wanted the children brought over so that the family could stay on after the funeral but Meghan insisted on going back to California the day after the funeral .

Yes it was an annual invitation.

I think the hapless American vs the old institution barely has any impact on this debate.

From the Times excerpts linked we are told consistently of horrendous abusive bullying by H&M to their staff - constantly screaming, harassing, demanding, belittling and berating at least 6 staff to tears, shaking and feeling destroyed. Others - v Sr experienced seasoned professionals are characterised as being under huge stress. Many, many other employees left, the palace had to split their households to cope and complaints were made about their despicable behaviour right to the top and an investigation launched.

Their behaviour is appalling to other human beings and would not be tolerated in any other institution or corporate environment. I do believe the courtiers handled it badly - by tolerating and covering up for so long and I suspect that the report found that there was indeed shocking bullying by H&M but that equally those who should have been accountable and responsible for protecting the victims of their harassment did not do so.

Never been an expat but once read that being lonely and homesick for your native country is quite common after a couple of years. I certainly think Meghan was lonely and homesick before they left - I suspect Harry may feel the same to some extent but he has torched most of his bridges ................

Nobody is wishing a divorce on H&M but it is possible that uprooting yourself and then everything that has gone on would make it difficult for them. Living in a very self enclosed bubble isn't always healthy either.

@MrsMaxDeWinter calm down, I wasn't talking about anything sinister or plots involving failed brakes in dark tunnels.

I think we all have either friends or family members who meet someone who becomes their 'everything' and old friends and family members are sidelined and forgotten

Certainly in my experience this state of affairs continues as long as the couple remain together.

I am certainly not wishing divorce or disaster - just an opinion that as long as they remain together I don't see Harry coming back into the family fold. This may well be for the rest of his life.

I'm sure I read that during funeral service visit for Prince Philip, Princess Ann, Sophie Wessex or Prince Edward said not one word to MM or PH.

What a nasty post.

Does PH have longstanding male friendships outside of the RF?
I wonder what’s happened to these?

He did! He had a crew old Eton pals who were very loyal and discreet. He'd party with them in the basement at Highgrove, which Charles had had kitted out as a sort of private club for William, Harry and their mates, away from the prying eyes of the press.

Harry was apparently excited to introduce them to Meghan and thought they'd all get on like a house on fire. She, of course, hated them on sight and berated them for their un-PC jokes and Harry no longer sees them. She has literally alienated him from anyone who was in his life before she turned up - his entire family and all his old friends.

She absolutely dissed people they love and care about, and they saw the additional lengths that had been gone to for her to be welcomed into the family. Despite their professed love for HM and PP, M & H made their last months of both of their lives very trying. I'd be mad too!

I wonder if they assumed that the Queen would be around for another 5/6 years (like her mother), and the fact that she has now sadly passed and everything is run by those they have bad-mouthed, has left them panicking.

Although I can see how weird the whole thing would have been for Meghan, the way she handled it has been despicable; she and Harry have made their bed......