'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

That would assume every soldier in the Army would be regularly promoted. That’s not true. Some stay at the same level all their careers. He could have stayed at the level he was Or moved sideways . He could have taken an admin job but he didn’t want that. Not all soldiers are Officer material . Some are not fit for leadership at all. Others stay where they are as they don’t want more responsibility or aren’t capable of leading.

I'm not saying otherwise though. Someone asked why he left. Those are the reasons I think he left.

To give him his due, he seemed to be perfectly fitted for a military life and was good at it. He was always going to be a target security wise and that was the main issue. Probably one of the reasons he started to loathe being a Royal because it scuppered his career in the Army.

It's a bit shit really as all the male royals (in direct line of succession) are brought up to do a spell in the forces. The Royals treat a spell in the forces like finishing school. H & W were encouraged from early childhood, there are pictures of them in tiny uniform playing soldiers, but when they join they can't do the full job due to security problems.
Obviously Duke of E was an officer in the war and a rising star but had to pack it in once the Queen succeeded. Prince Charles had a fairly successful stint in the navy but that was in a time of peace and I expect he had to intersperse it with Royal duties, Andrew insisted on being allowed to go to the Falklands, Edward dropped out of the tough marines training. William was able to do the search and rescue helicopter job which was great for him. Harry's time coincided with Iraq and Afghanistan and he would clearly have been a massive security risk, not just for himself but his colleagues and so it was a real problem. Well done to him that he was able to do a couple of stints there and it was disgraceful of foreign press to spill the beans. So that was that.

Why would Kate be enraged by this? Why should Harry leaving mean her children have to be more visible, unless she and William want them to be.? Two of the children were last minute additions to the funeral, and the palace put out information that it had been carefully considered by their parents etc.

If she and William wish to keep their children out of the limelight, they have the power to do it. But I suspect that, because, at its purest, the business of the monarchy is self-preservation, the Waleses will do what the wider family has done through its history, they will do what they believe serves the monarchy the best, even if it might not be the best thing for their children.

I agree, I don’t see how Harry leaving means the Wales children have to be more visible right now. Surely the fact they’ve been more visible over the last year is because of the unusual amount of special events - jubilee, funeral etc. and because they’re in the direct line of succession.

They aren’t the reasons that we’re given at the time. Harry was very angry and upset to have to be pulled from active combat. I don’t think he’s ever got over it. It’s probably the only thing in his life he was good at.

They aren’t the reasons that we’re given at the time. Harry was very angry and upset to have to be pulled from active combat. I don’t think he’s ever got over it. It’s probably the only thing in his life he was good at.

And he could have done the courses and stayed in if he'd wanted to. It doesn't matter if he was good at it, he still has to go down the route everyone else has to, the boring, admin route. Much of being in the army isn't active combat, that's the same for any soldier. Mostly it's training, training, polishing up shoes and then more training. I understand it must have been very disappointing for him and it's a shame though but no more so than some poor junior rank who gets a long term injury while running up the Brecon Beacons three years in and has to leave and try to negotiate civilian life because he can't maintain his fitness. It's just circumstances isn't it? I can't feel sorry for him. We all have our trials and tribulations, at least not worrying about money or where he was going to live wasn't one of his.

There certainly seems to be a huge PR push at the moment. I find it quite laughable at times. William and Kate desperately trying to be relateable . It’s so transparent. They realise they really need to do something to keep themselves relevant.

He hasn’t ‘put her on’ it happens automatically; the spouse of the monarch and the next four people over 18 .

He bumped Harry and Andrew off it. Bea is next in line. Technically they are both above her in order of succession.

There certainly seems to be a huge PR push at the moment. I find it quite laughable at times. William and Kate desperately trying to be relateable . It’s so transparent. They realise they really need to do something to keep themselves relevant

The children clearly enjoyed the jubilee celebrations along with the rest of the family, and I’d hardly call that and taking them to the funeral a huge PR push.

No he didn’t - at least, not yet.

Harry and Andrew are still Counsellors of State.

I was sure I read yesterday that he'd changed it.

I presume what you read is that he’s considering changing it. It would take some legislation.

Certainly seems to have been stated that Bea had promotion along with Camilla, the Mirror and Sky News Australia are both saying it when I googled just now.

Odd I agree it's not the broadsheets or BBC reporting it. 🤔 I just knew it had flashed up somewhere that it had happened.

I think that the demands starting 6 months before they were actually engaged indicates that they knew they would marry very very early in the relationship. I think William was aware of their/ Harry’s intentions early too and was spooked.
I think Harry is so madly in love/lust that he can’t think straight about anything to do with M, and until he emerges from this state, nothing will change.

Yes Camilla and Bea have both become Counsellors of State, it happened automatically upon Charles’s accession.

Camilla because she’s the Monarch’s spouse.

Beatrice because with Charles no longer being a Counsellor due to being King, she’s the next in the line of succession over the age of 21.

But Harry and Andrew are still Counsellors of State.

It’s the spouse of the sovereign and the next 4 in line who are over the age of 21. No rules have changed but Camilla is now the wife of the sovereign and Charles becoming King left a vacancy so Beatrice became the next in line. So it’s true they are newly appointed, false that something has been changed. Andrew and Harry are still there.

I think Harry did well in the Army because he is someone who needs to be 'managed' or he becomes problematic. He was 'managed' in the Army - told what to do, where to be and how to behave.

He was 'managed' in the Royal Family before Meghan came alone. He may not have liked it (and it may not have been good for his mental health) but it made him less problematic (publicly at least).

Then his handler changed. Meghan is now his 'manager' but her agenda is very different. Whereas in the past he was talked down he is now fired up. I very much doubt, so long as the two are together, that anything will radically change.

Sadly, I think the RF only have hope of him coming back to the fold if Meghan is off the scene.

I also have limited sympathy at this stage. We all face challenges in life and have to adapt and move forward best we can. Forge our own paths in life. He seems to have this attitude that it is somehow his birthright to important, successful and influential and is adopting a scorched earth policy to anyone who stands in his way.

Yes he's been released from his gilded cage but doesn't know how to fly.
He's never had to live out in the real world before and has absolutely no street wisdom.

Does PH have longstanding male friendships outside of the RF?

I wonder what’s happened to these?

Friendships outside of a difficult family are very important for emotional stability. No idea what he does with his time but if the friendships are/were U.K. based it doesn’t seem that he adds in any time to be with them when he is over on business.

All musing in my part. Maybe he has made friendships in L.A. or been absorbed into MM friendship circle?

I would imagine someone with his past life of the army and even RF where most of your time is very social and connected with people might feel lonely and disconnected?

A poster on here was saying Harry has dean Stott (an ex army guy who hates the tabloids as much as Harry does) and his ‘second father’ David foster in LA.

He did but they weren’t invited to his wedding reception at Frogmore so clearly some distance there.

He now mainly seems to be playing polo with whatshisname.

I got the impression that PH and PW had largely a shared group of friends, who they had known for a long time and from a similar background (titled background, private school). Probably difficult for such friends to be neutral, especially if they live in the UK. Wasn't there a media report that Meghan had attended a Sandringham gathering of his friends and ticked them off for general un pc ness. And that they weren't impressed? that may be just gossip, just saying.