'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

I agree that the Heat article may well have some merit. I have wondered what would have happened if the Sussexes had not coincidentally happened to be in the UK when the Queen died. How much of the ceremonial would they have taken part in? Would Harry have walked behind the coffin to the lying in State? They almost certainly would not have taken part in the walk about in Windsor with the Waleses. Would they have just come for the funeral or the Vigil? I am wondering if all the happenings around the Queen’s death haven’t made Harry reconsider what it means to be outside looking in. And also to realise that the monarchy (if KC does a good job) is more than just the Queen. After all they were always at pains to stress how close they were to her, but didn’t seem to have considered what would happen when she was no longer there.

Following up from the Heat article.

I always got the impression that Charles & Harry had a warmer relationship than Charles & William, but that very much seems to have changed, with it being reported that Charles and William are much closer and in ongoing contact. Harry's estrangement has probably contributed to that. Certainly, contact between Charles and Louis at the jubilee celebrations suggest that Charles is a part of their lives, and a very warmly welcomed grandpa.

The relationship between William and Harry and Camilla is harder to judge. The indications are that Harry has no regard now for Camilla - no comment at all from him when the Queen stated she wanted Camilla to be Queen Consort - and it is hard to fathom William's relationship with her. However, when we see Kate and Camilla together, it seems like a very warm relationship and they seem very much at ease in each other's company.

He made a decision and now he has to live with it. It’s unreasonable for him to expect to come back from the damage and drama the pair of them have inflicted on the family even if he wants to. She has no vested interest in the family other than money and position and she’s already made it quite clear that a Prince with a £30m fortune in his own right plus access to palaces, jewels and a global platform albeit within defined parameters don’t cut it for her. She’s aiming higher.

@PinkTonic I'd agree.

I can see a long way back for Harry alone but not as part of a couple with Meghan.

I'm get the feeling Meghan though RF meant lots of posh glitzy dos, waving from the balcony not the mundain opening community centres, visiting places, reading bumf so you know who your meeting next, running to military precision timing.

I know people think none of that is stressful or difficult but it must be.

The press are concentrating on the excerpts that feature Harry and Meghan, presumably because they sell papers/get clicked upon, but the one about Charles is far more interesting to me.

Why did he befriend not one, not two, but THREE sexual predators? Andrew is (quite rightly) vilified for his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein but Charles was friends with Laurens van der Post, Jimmy Savile and Peter Ball. This shows a very serious lack of judgement in the monarch.

there was a reignited thread here a few months ago from shortly after Jimmy Savile died.

The OP (to paraphrase) said she was glad Jimmy Savile was dead and she was absolutely piled on. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Laurens VDP fathering a child with a 14 year old also came out after he was dead. Do we know definitively that Prince Charles knew anything about it? I don’t personally put Jimmy Savile in direct comparison with Lauren’s van der Post.

I’m interested in the book generally. I always want a look behind closed doors but I am not shocked (is anyone?!) to discover the royals fuck up in their work lives as well as their personal lives. I know I do. I hope I don’t know any sexual abusers or deviants but I don’t know til I know!

A slip of the index finger while walking along U and I are smack bang next to each other.

@goldierocks
Many thanks for tokens.

It would be great to think that Princess Anne would have a word but in reality I bet she didn't as I think the RF would be frightened to say anything that would inflame the situation and end up being thrown back at them.

@goldierocks thank you very much for the links and share tokens

It seems Charles supported Peter Ball even after some of the allegations came to light.

As for Jimmy Savile serving as marriage counsellor to the Waleses, words fail me. Poor Diana!

It does make the point in the book that Charles is a bit gullible and latches on to external ‘advisors’ to whom he gives too much credence . I suppose if you are in position and live in a rarified bubble, you don’t really know how the real world works. So you look to others for input.

I think they’ve put themselves in a position where they are living in a gilded cage, having to sing for their supper and with few real confidantes. Other celebrities will not want to be tainted by association or l will look down on them at some stage. They just aren’t in the same league because they don’t have the same level of money and influence.

Reading the Times excerpts, kindly shared by @goldierocks , It's staggering that Meghan has estranged so many trusted Royal Staff.
If someone is ''That''difficult to work for, for so many proven successful aides, then surely the issue is not with the aides.

Megalomania seems to be the issue here.

There seemed to be so little warmth between H&M and any of the other family during the public events. Almost studiously avoiding any eye contact. I wonder what happened on the day the queen died.

The plane that William, the Wessexes and Prince Andrew were on was delayed on the ground for over an hour (with them on board). I can't help but wonder if they were waiting for Harry - but due to the row about whether Meghan could attend he was delayed.

There has been so much water under the bridge it seems impossible for them to be welcomed back into the fold now.

For this to happen I think H&M would have to permanently pause their commercial projects - the podcast, the documentary series and the memoir but surely the financial ramifications would be too great for them.

I have pre-ordered the book. I am interested to see what happens next.

Can't help but wonder at this point if Netflix are actually paying them to create future content for the Crown 😂

That article is very interesting. If true , it sounds as though Harry wants to make amends and build bridges with his family. Meghan wants nothing to do with them. We could all see this coming..

I wonder if Harry looks at his niece and nephews and hardly recognises them. They will barely know who he is now.

Love your typo 😆 “Funding Freedom”

WalkingwithPilgrims 😆

It has the feeling of containing truth to me too. The events of the last couple of weeks must have been particularly strange and difficult for Harry and brought a lot of things front and centre.

It would be really, really sad if he and Meghan end up like the Duke and Duchess of Windsor, consumed by lasting bitterness and their grievances, him making occasional visits where he is treated with great caution by those previously close. I think there has got to be real will and effort on both sides if that is to be avoided and I can't imagine it will be easy. His book could be make or break.

I'm pleased that some of the courtiers have a voice in this book and interested in what they have to say.

I'm also surprised though as I would have thought they'd have to sign NDAs or Gagging Orders.

Does anyone have any knowledge of how this works?

I think someone said in an earlier thread that as there are allegations of bullying about the Sussexes, that trumps over the NDAs or something along those lines.

@snog I'd assume 'someone' has given authority for the courtiers book. No way have they just decided to spill the beans and tell all without 'someone' giving it the nod, reading and approving. Just my assumption.

If they have spoken out as whistleblowers , are they not exempt from NDAs ?

I’ll go back to the point of the book shortly but this is the thread I meant. Hindsight Etc.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1338776-Cult-of-Celebrity?reply=28371306