'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

@Readinginthesun

Not death then, just divorce. Good to know.

I see things very differently from you in that I see in Harry a man who usually scowls and glowers when in the UK and cameras are on him, but who is pretty relaxed when outside the UK, even with cameras on him, see most recently in Dusseldorf, and the Invictus Games in The Hague where he smiled, engaged warmly with people, and looked very happy.

I also see a man who seems solicitous and attentive to his wife, see for instance, the recent walkabout with W and K.

It's pretty low to speculate on their divorce, especially given that they have two very two children. It's as low as all that vileness on Twitter, William being called the Prince of Pegging and people speculating on his affairs without any proof. Just nasty.

so she should have just put up with their non pc jokes????
odd place mn

What do you mean when you say 'as soon as possible'?

They could have gone overseas straight away. Got married there. Meghan never had to be a working royal or live in Britain. That was their choice.

I think part of the problem was they really rushed into things. They got engaged after having a long distance relationship for little more than a year, with her moving to a country and a lifestyle she knew nothing about. But again, that was their choice. If rumours are correct, William and others told Harry to take things slowly, but he course considered that an insult and felt aggrieved when people were looking out for his best interests. Seems to be a bit of a theme with these two.

And I don't think there was ever any hope of "a quasi-royal arrangement that worked for them" because, if Low's book is correct, they never had any intention of compromising. They wanted all the 'sexy' bits of royal life, with none of the community centres in Stoke on a Tuesday in November. That was never going to be a possibility.

I wonder if they assumed that the Queen would be around for another 5/6 years (like her mother), and the fact that she has now sadly passed and everything is run by those they have bad-mouthed, has left them panicking.

I think this is exactly what happened.

Me too. William said the family had expected her to live longer in view of the fact the QM had lived to over 100.

I have had a very similar situation in my own family. A beloved family member who was at the heart of family life met 'the woman of his dreams'. We were all so happy for him. At first all so friendly and nice. Then slowly problems arose and gradually we all saw less and less of him. His family and friends were replaced with her family and friends.

Literally to the point where we rarely saw them, if we did - it would be for a very controlled hour or so, all on their terms at their convenience.

Grandchildren never developed relationships with paternal grandparents - not allowed to babysit or have any one to one time.

This went on for years and years and years. In the end, the family member was utterly miserable but trapped - through fear of losing his children.

They are divorced now, he finally had enough. He is back into the fold and all is forgiven.

I see so many similarities. We never wished divorce upon them but we all rued the day that he met her.

Considering that Meghan was not actually there at Philip's funeral service, I am sure it was pretty easy for those you mention to ignore her!

And considering that neither Harry nor Meghan attended the memorial service, it was just as easy to ignore them both!

There are more photos of Harry looking ill at ease, resentful and grumpy when with Meghan on those occasions. Far more. That may be Press bias of course. However if he was as happy as you suppose, surely there would be none.

I have seen this in extended family too. The couple are still together but he has no friends at all and life revolves around her and her demands. He cut off his parents for over a decade and has very little relationship with the other members.

That's an interesting observation. I think the late Queen Mother especially despised The Duke & Duchess of Windsor because of the consequences for her husband and daughters.

I’m not talking about that. William and Kate in Wales is the latest. I’m not knocking them, it’s just very transparent.

stay safe Puzzledandpissedoff .

I don’t think he needed a degree after attending Sandhust, but people more in the know will be able to say. He was already an Officer. even though I’m not British, I will answer this , I know someone who went to Sandhurst then years later he went to staff collage , I believe it’s now called joint service command and staff collage, he held a high rank in the Army, I’m not sure that it’s the case for all , but I’d say that the majority had to take extra degrees to progress .

I wonder if they assumed that the Queen would be around for another 5/6 years (like her mother), and the fact that she has now sadly passed and everything is run by those they have bad-mouthed, has left them panicking

I don't actually think Meghan cared, she's cut of most of her own family. 'what Meghan wants, Meghan gets'.

Harry either just couldn't see what damage he could do. Or wasn't strong enough to stand up to her and say No your not slating my family. Maybe their is an element of he couldn't imagine HMQ or PP just not being there.

I'm another who thinks the Charles and William would have Harry back, but it would take something mammoth for them to re-consider Meghan.

My view is that Harry is in a controlling relationship. He has been alienated from his family , friends and country by someone who is alienated from all but one of her family .
I see so many parallels to a relationship my DD had a few years ago when she was “ persuaded “ to cut off all friends and family , leave the job she loved etc etc . Thankfully she ( finally) saw the light.
That Harry wasn’t happy with some aspects of Royal life is well documented but there was talk that he could spend more time in Africa, a place he loved. He had options , he didn’t have to give up absolutely everything and enter the shallow world of show business.

Completely agree with this. A long time friend and confidante who was a father figure to him for years also left around the time he met Meghan. Can’t remember his name, but he was a steadying force on Harry. I think he needs a strong father figure and managing, yes. With the loss of the Queen, he has lost a pivotal figure in his life and another steadying hand. I wonder how that will affect him. I think William tried to be a father figure to him too.

What do you mean ? Sorry if I am being thick but what’s transparent?

I think that it is extremely unfair to blame H for not explaining royal life to M or all of the rest. It was well established that he was mentally vulnerable and not very smart. The haste to marry and reproduce was dictated by her biological clock alone and shows the extent to which she managed to exert her control over him from so early on. It is extremely creepy that she used the line ' We both know that I am going to be your boss soon' to an employee whom she never liked SIX MONTHS BEFORE getting engaged.

The gulf between their experiences was arguably exploited by her, not H. He has not gained anything positive from choosing to marry her in particular but lost loads of things/people vital to his wellbeing and happiness. The gains have been all hers.

Wrt the article in the yoga magazine explaining how she introduced him to tantric sex practices and he thinks that he is the only guy around LA having full body orgasms all day maintained by her frequent loving touches and eye contact. Well, that would be a naïve-Brit boy-trap which she set up for him because it is lifted from Eastern philosophy, not invented by M and half of LA are practicing it too etc.
When he realizes these things and how he has turned himself into an untrustworthy villain because she mis-sold herself as a diamond when she was a bog standard LA hippie actress then I think he will turn on her and their generate a drama that will actually be worthy of Netflix (for the first time).

Ahh. A stealth post by @MrsMaxDeWinter to mention those unpleasant and unlikely rumours.

@ShamedBySiri sorry I don't understand what you mean by stealth post?

I don’t think there’s anything odd or “transparent” about the new Prince and Princess of Wales going to Wales the first day that national
mourning is over. And especially not to back where they lived. All their visits are PR in one way or another, for the RF and the organisations they visit but this one doesn’t seem incongruous.

I also don’t think the children enjoying the Platinum Jubilee and then the ones old enough to attend their great grandmother’s funeral doing that is wheeling them out to feed the press. It just so happens that these two events occurred in the same year.

They're doing their jobs - being seen and talking to people. Not a PR stunt, a regular occurence. Would you suggest they do this behind closed doors and ban photographers?

Really, Croque. No sex please. We’re British.

H&M said in the OW interview that they had never planned to leave the RF.

They wanted half in / half out - and if you look at it closely it was all about cash.

The “half in” bit was easy - H&M could carry on and focus on their specific charities and causes.

The issue according to the Times excerpts was that in the “half out” bit which is where they wanted to generate cash by using their working RF status. This was a red line (that applied to everyone) that could be crossed. - as the RF brand could not be associated with commercial projects (same as political).

Seems from the excerpts the firm/family/courtiers explored every option of a part time royal having months off duties etc but commercial projects in those off times was not acceptable.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that William and Kate have “upped their game”, as one commentator put it, since the OW accusations.

so she should have just put up with their non pc jokes????

Most people, when meeting their new BF or GF's best mates would make an effort to get on with them. They'd overlook a few misplaced comments or jokes - and they definitely wouldn't immediately berate them and fall out with them.

Most people would look for the good in a group of people who had stood by their loved one through thick and thin and never leaked stories to the press, when surely they could easily have done so, if they weren't so loyal and discreet. I think the fact that she immediately took against them (and Kate - who she clearly saw as a rival from the get-go), speaks volumes about her insecurity and ambition to control everything and everyone around Harry. His friends were no doubt baffled and hurt to be excluded from their friend's wedding reception and yet, even now, none of them has spoken to the press. That's how loyal and discreet they are.