Why are H&M "less important" now?

[thefoggiest]

Let's not make this a bashing thread!
But in another thread yesterday it occured to me that the way I see it, I just get the sense that with the queens death they almost drop a rank. But that doesnt make sense? If anything shouldn't they now feel more important? Now that her majesty has gone it just feels like they become more distant somehow. Could it be to do with the passing of a generation, so they are no longer "the youth"?

By the way this isnt based on any facts or anything I've read, just a feeling on it. Can anyone explain? Am I right or wrong?

Where have I said it was acceptable?

Well, you said "possibly some of the behavior towards staff - I've certainly read account of some Hollywood celeb's who do expect staff to be on 24/7 - employments law and cultures differ here."

To me that sounded like you thought the behaviour described in the article would be considered normal in American 'celeb' circles, particularly as you had previously referred to 'cultural differences'.

Also from last few weeks from things I've seen on internet from america from various sources I don't think they do "get" the monarchy, UK constitution or large swaths of UK culture and the grasp of even their own history is generally shaky.

Maybe. But surely a supposedly intelligent woman who had a degree in International Studies, had interned in an America embassy and clearly had an interest in royalty would understand that being a member of the royal family is radically different from being a 'celeb'? It's not really that complex a concept to grasp.

The poor Harry narrative about a grown man frankly grates it very much of the poor helpless innocent seduced by bad woman trope.

I agree with that. I think they are two very damaged people who have brought out the very worst in each other.

This looks like you are trying to minimise bullying?

Where is screaming at staff, reducing them to tears, humiliating them acceptable in any culture?

Seems that there were numerous witnesses, reports both by the victims and bystanders. Are they all wrong and exaggerating?

The official report was likely only held back to avoid over shadowing the Jubilee - I expect this article and ensuing media speculation will prompt its publication.

I for one do not believe the bullying rumours. I have seen lots of foreign women face bullying in the UK - at work and other places so it is hard for me to accept that. I have also experienced it myself.
When it starts, no matter what the situation is the bullies gang up on you and are critical of everything you do. They aim to just push you out. Quite often there's no solid evidence - unless one of them slips and lets it out.
I have also seen people tend to behave like sheep and follow the bullies - very few people tend to stand for what's right at the time.

For those who do not know - people of colour tend to be a target for bullying at work / schools / etc. This happens with foreign white people too. I have seen people being rude to people from Eastern Europe/ Greece / Portugal for example when they cover some placements. This is also true when let's say a white person is a minority it's not just exclusive to BAME. If you have not experienced it - it's hard to appreciate. Note that I am not saying it's exclusively racism as it happens to white foreigners as well.

A lot of the bullying from the press - and the comments some people make, aren't very different from other people's life experiences of racism and/ or bullying. I think Meghan is a smart girl, she knows not to upset people given the industry she works in. I doubt very much she would have behaved like that - when all her colleagues speak highly of her. Why are there no reports of bad behaviour from current colleagues and school mates. Please don't quote Samantha and her horrible dad who actually hasn't met any of his other grandchildren.

For me it's also easy to believe her - are there any POC working at the palace? She married into a family that banned “coloured immigrants or foreigners” from serving in clerical roles in the royal household until at least the late 1960s. The Palace negotiated controversial clauses – that remain in place to this day – exempting the Queen and her household from laws that prevent race and sex discrimination.
I mean . . . . come on!

Re the bullying, let's see if she sues the author. H&M's MO is to sue, so shall we expect to hear from their lawyers?

Yes, that’s the thing. At least some of those people would come out and refute these claims if untrue. Instead… deafening silence. I suspect they have all spoken to the author off the record .

I wonder where this is all leading really. If they can’t all sit down and talk and try to resolve things it’s going to get really ugly. That will further push H and M into victim mode. It will become an open war and that will be devastating for everyone.

I for one do not believe the bullying rumours.

OK.

Does that mean they are innocent?

Doesn’t matter what random poster on MN “believes” - there will be the evidence and experience of this group with with their own integrity to protect:

Sam Cohen
Sir David Manning
Sara Latham
Melissa Touabti
Fiona Mcilwham
Simon Case
The Lord Chamberlain
Amy Pickerill
Angela Kelly

Her lawyers were given a week's notice before Valentine Low's article appeared in The Sunday Times last year. Publication went ahead as planned. The claims have also not been denied, even if a few cleverly worded statements tried to give the impression that they had been. I think it's very obvious that this isn't just some tabloid hack job, but a carefully researched story by a respected journalist, which no doubt will have been given a very close inspection by The Sunday Times' legal team.

I am not minimising bullying - I personally think that says more about biases and reading comprehension.

I just can’t believe this could be written without their sign off and I can’t see why these disparate people would collude to concoct a made up story.

I never said anything like this.

It's bizarre having a slightly different take on an article and focusing on a slightly different point and suddenly fine to make shit up or as another poster did cause me of being a bully.

I thought it was a complete given bullying staff was unacceptable - UK law rightly offer protection against it - I thought it such a universal position that it was unacceptable it didn't need explicitly stating in every fucking post or really commenting on because it's so indefensible.

I can see why these threads get avoided - both extreme sides are fucking nuts - one side it's tie yourself in knots denying their own word other it you are not saying some form of burn the witch every other sentence you are the enemy and must support all kinds of evil shit. I don't usually come in this topic area - The Royal family not being a big interest usually - lesson learnt.

Well the queen's recent and last equerry was Nana Kofi Twumasi-Ankrah.

A POC, and he has never ever said anything about being bullied or the establishment being racist 😳

I mean given the position he held, the Queen's right hand man, can't exactly say he was hired in the lower ranks for some sort of show of hiring POC and a equality box to be ticked!

You’ve been bullied but deny to believe others that say they have been, based on the fact that the bully in this case is MM who is mixed race. Just because racism exists it does not mean that in this case, she was a bully and emboldened by being in a position of power all of a sudden.

Can you tell me why they’re happy to accept their DC be HRH Princess and Prince from a racist institution that supposedly bullied MM, with one of the RF having questioned Archie’s skin colour?

What took them so long - and why put laws in place to avoid hiring POC and specifically coloured immigrants . . . It really isn't so hard to see why Meghan wasn't protected and why that environment was going to be tough for her as a POC and foreigner.
Let's wait and see how Nana gets on - shame about the NDAs. I can't imagine and entire organisation with how many staff? With only a handful of POC - in Britain? In London?

Excellent point about A and L and one I have asked on other threads . The only answer I am given is that it is their birthright ! I would think more of H and M if they made it clear that their DC would not have titles and drop their own .

Well the enquiry needs to be a armed forces officer, and they are interviewed and selected.

So maybe the other officers weren't capable of the role, but he was 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also you are talking about the 1960's when even the local B&B had a sign outside

No Irish
No Blacks
No Dogs

Thankfully times have changed!

Also many of the palace staff are armed forces personnel, so maybe ask why the Armed Forces aren't recruiting many POC? Again it's not that they have a policy about it, POC just don't seem to enlist and there are fewer BAME officers again compared to lower ranks.

It's not just The Palace, you have to look where they select their staff from.

Bullies also usually have accomplices. Quite often not POC in an environment of white people only - they also often have built up a reputation. There's nothing negative about Meghan pre Harry. The RF would have done their digging and due diligence. I believe she was bullied and experienced racism at the Palace.

Someone mentioned earlier some people just don't want a foreigner in a position of Authority.
Meghan was told to go back to acting for a salary. She was told be less than what she is and be quiet to fit in. If the RF didn't respect her, I doubt the staff would have.

The bullying claims were shoved in the bin because it was nonsense. M+H served to the press on a platter to cover focus on other RF scandals. This is why H left. There was no support - they used them and threw them under the bus, while glorifying other members of the firm.

But these laws they negotiated are still in place now - why?
Today? There are barely black / or "coloured" workers at the palace? It's quite embarrassing - there's simply no excuse for that.

The are black guards I have seen. In fact I know someone personally who had this role.
There are many POC in the army - especially from the commonwealth. It used to be an easier way for foreign people to settle here in the UK. So there are actually plenty.

And I believed she was welcomed with open arms and could have used an exceptionally amazing opportunity to represent POC very well if she’d a shred of intelligence and I say that as a mixed race person.

The power went to her head which is why she cut her father off so coldly. And yes I think he’s a bumbling twit but he’s still her father and sacrificed to pay for her education.

I could never take her ‘compassion in action’ blurb seriously.

Yes, but I'm talking about commissioned officers. That's really where you see the difference. It's white heavy! Look at any intake to Sandhurst it's 90% white. Same for Cranwell (RAF) and The Naval College.

There are many NCO's and Privates who are BAME but it's commissioned officers that get the enquiry roles at the palace.

I'll be honest I used to shag a sommelier for Buckingham Palace, he was white but many of his colleagues were POC 🤷🏻‍♀️

H&M were only important in that they were part of the working RF. They might now be ‘important’ to the gossip columnists but as far as Britain is concerned they are of no more importance than anyone else here. They have opted out for what they (or she) wanted - a life of celebrity in America - so let them get on with it.

That article is shocking! 😮

They are hardly “bullying rumours”. Several members of the household are being named and giving specific anecdotes of bullying.

If those accounts were not true as I said above, they would quickly have been challenged by the staff concerned. Instead there is radio silence.

It's rather more than "rumours" isn't it? It's a consistent and strenuous narrative.

Meghan's father is an arsehole. Whatever happened between them, what sort of father shares his daughter's private letters with the press?

Thomas Markle behaved poorly, yes, but it's hardly crime of the century, is it? I'm afraid Meghan's perceived attitude towards him reflects very badly on her.

The proof of the pudding with regards to this new book will be whether the Sussexes take legal action. They are certainly no strangers to doing that. IF it is true that the Palace buried the original investigation because it reflected Meghan in a bad light, then any legal action will publicise that, which I should have thought they would want to avoid.

He sold her private letters to him to the MoS and it reflects badly on her?

Would you ever speak to your father again if he did that to you? What kind of parent does that?

I'm pretty critical of Meghan these days, but her father's a complete tosser and she was right to cut him off. I would too.