Prince Andrew thoughts

[Reduceddutiesboredom]

Maybe he’ll stop hiding behind his mummy now…

Yes I read about this yesterday. Be interesting to see how it pans out. I always thought it would all fizzle out. But the latest accusations from PA are surprising. I do think she wanted an out of court settlement and wouldn't have wanted it to come to this.

[quote Roussette]So Andrew is fighting back.

This is going to get nasty.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-andrew-accuses-virginia-giuffre-of-procuring-slutty-girls-for-sexual-abuse-by-epstein-9zlbk8dwt[/quote]
Going to get nasty? It has been as nasty as it could be right from the start.

I can't read past the first para of that article so apologies if this question is answered in the article but how is PA making those accusations about someone he claims not to recognise or to have met? Is he now accepting that he did meet her?

I would have thought his hot shot lawyers have got evidence from other folk around at the time. How reliable that would be is anybodys guess. Maybe that Maxwell woman has given evidence to try to save her own skin. No matter what the truth is its a murky murky business.

This is incredibly damaging for the RF and I can see Prince Charles being the last monarch
Even if they stop Prince Andrew representing them in public, the whole point of the monarchy is that its not a meritocracy, they are there because of their birth position. Without Prince Charles, we would have been stuck with Andrew as the next king
The whole cosying up to oligarchs with money, best buddies with Jimmy Saville/Peter Ball, getting exception from legislation institution is rotten and surely must end soon

I agree Motherof

Then I see this image and I think it ought to end with the Queen!
Charles's travel in less than two weeks
16,000 miles
£280,000 cost to taxpayer
Emitted 162 tons of Co2

And he's going to talk at COP26????

I also can only read a small part of that article and I am looking at words used. The title has the words 'procuring slutty girls for sexual abuse by Epstein' . The early part of the article uses the words 'teenage rape' without any quotation marks round them. Then it says that lawyers for PA have accused VG of the "wilful recruitment and trafficking of young girls for sexual abuse" and quotation marks are definitely used there and so I deduce that those are the actual words that have been used. Later it says that lawyers for the D of Y have painted VG as an alleged criminal who worked to procure underage "slutty girls"..etc. These two words slutty girls have they ever been used by anyone except the writer of the newspaper article? Do all people who read those words stop to ask who exactly used them?

Now the word 'rape'. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that rape would come under the general umbrella of 'sexual assault' but that it has a specific definition in law. Have VG's lawyers, in her complaint/allegations against PA, ever used the word 'rape' or do they always use the words 'sexual assault'. I heard the word 'rape' used once on radio, but only once, and I can't remember the context. It could have been the radio saying what the papers said that morning. When reporters, newspaper and TV and radio reporters, use loaded words, they paint pictures in my and other people's minds, and they might not be what the protagonists or the lawyers have said at all.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4371801-Prince-Andrew-no-surprise?msgid=112097659#112097659

@upinaballoon. On the thread above, I copy and pasted the whole article

Thank you Rousette.

Thanks @Roussette

Describing a child/ teen as 'slutty' or 'sex kitten' is bang out of order.

@Roussette

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4371801-Prince-Andrew-no-surprise?msgid=112097659#112097659

@upinaballoon. On the thread above, I copy and pasted the whole article

Thank you. I read it. Now I'm going to do something completely different and then look up some more.

.........and I read in the article that the word 'rape' is used officially, and I looked up some more and I find that the sister of an alleged ex-boyfriend of VG alleged that it was VG who allegedly asked if the sister knew any 'slutty girls', presumably because she was recruiting for JE, allegedly, and that's as far back as I can find those words being used, so far.

And another big name bites the dust because of his connection with JE even years after his first prison sentence.

www.bbc.com/news/business-59117084

Hopefully not the last.

In other news Ghislaine Maxwell attended a pretrial hearing today. Various legal blows delivered:

www.courthousenews.com/judge-oks-some-loaded-language-in-last-stop-for-ghislaine-maxwell-before-trial/

[quote Roussette]And another big name bites the dust because of his connection with JE even years after his first prison sentence.

www.bbc.com/news/business-59117084[/quote]
Interestingly the Barclays CEO was in trouble with his Board not because of anything that he did in the course of his relationship with Epstein, but because he appears to have attempted to mislead the UK regulators about how well they knew each other (he appears to have taken the line that they merely knew each other professionally, but other evidence, such as emails, paints a picture of a closer relationship).

Jes Staley disputes this, it should be pointed out, but Barclays’ board is obviously disinclined to give him a third chance, and don’t want to be stuck with a CEO constantly at odds with their regulators. He is thought to have been lucky to hold onto his job in 2018 after being fined several hundred thousand pounds by the regulators for abusing his position to try and identify an anonymous whistleblower who had made claims about him. Another Epstein acquaintance with a history of very poor judgment: quel surprise.

@upinaballoon

.........and I read in the article that the word 'rape' is used officially, and I looked up some more and I find that the sister of an alleged ex-boyfriend of VG alleged that it was VG who allegedly asked if the sister knew any 'slutty girls', presumably because she was recruiting for JE, allegedly, and that's as far back as I can find those words being used, so far.

I saw a man being interviewed, think it was Newsnight. He was someone who lived locally to JE in Florida. He said what was going on was well known locally, JE paying girls for sex, the girls liked the money but got tired of the sex and the deal then was if they recruited another girl (or might have been girls) to take over they would continue to get their money without having to join in with any sexual activity.

This was months ago, I've wondered why that hadn't been brought up more. If it's true I wonder if the girls would still have committed an offence recruiting others or would they be still considered victims for the recruiting as well as being victims of underage sex.

Complicated.

Interestingly the Barclays CEO was in trouble with his Board not because of anything that he did in the course of his relationship with Epstein, but because he appears to have attempted to mislead the UK regulators about how well they knew each other (he appears to have taken the line that they merely knew each other professionally, but other evidence, such as emails, paints a picture of a closer relationship).

He straight out lied. He is known to have visited JE's island in 2015 just prior to taking up the Barclays job, and then said he had no idea what JE was up to, which is total bollocks; unless he was blindfolded and placed in a sensory deprivation tank for the duration of his stay on Little St James, he would have known exactly what was going on there: none of the activities on offer were relevant or necessary for private wealth banking.

Barclays are just as bad as Staley, no morals in the entire institution. It was all fine till it wasn't fine. No way they didn't know he was mates with JE. Now they're just embarrassed.

Jes Staley disputes this

Despite having sailed his yacht to Epstein's private island in 2015.

Perhaps he wanted to tell him in person that they couldn't be mates any more just like our honourable prince or perhaps he's just another entitled, arrogant master of the universe who thinks his word should be taken at face value by the little people.

It's beginning to look like a pattern

@PurpleOkapi hell yes, a 17-year old can never be considered slutty!! EVER. What is wrong with you that you would ever argue otherwise?!?

And that’s just a general fact. Its use in this case is even more outrageous. Are you seriously suggesting it is acceptable for a grown man, one who is in a considerable position of power, to refer to a minor (which is what she is in the eyes of the US law) as a slut? The use of a derogatory term for a sexually promiscuous woman to describe a 17 year old is ok to you? And that using this term as part of a legal argument in a case where sex trafficking is alleged is alright?

And we wonder why rape convictions are so low with this kind of misogynistic attitude.

ancientgran, yes it is complicated. I also have wondered if a fifteen-year-old girl could legally be guilty of anything, if she recruited another fifteen-year-old for JE.

Do you think anyone has realised that the words 'slutty girls' seem to have been first used by VG, if the allegations are true?

@upinaballoon

ancientgran, yes it is complicated. I also have wondered if a fifteen-year-old girl could legally be guilty of anything, if she recruited another fifteen-year-old for JE.

Do you think anyone has realised that the words 'slutty girls' seem to have been first used by VG, if the allegations are true?

I suppose it depends on US laws but some of the girls would have been older than that. I think the article was accusing VG of recruiting girls when she was over 18? Maybe I got that wrong.

I think "slutty girls" sounds more like a teenager talking.

[quote canyoutoleratethis]@PurpleOkapi hell yes, a 17-year old can never be considered slutty!! EVER. What is wrong with you that you would ever argue otherwise?!?

And that’s just a general fact. Its use in this case is even more outrageous. Are you seriously suggesting it is acceptable for a grown man, one who is in a considerable position of power, to refer to a minor (which is what she is in the eyes of the US law) as a slut? The use of a derogatory term for a sexually promiscuous woman to describe a 17 year old is ok to you? And that using this term as part of a legal argument in a case where sex trafficking is alleged is alright?

And we wonder why rape convictions are so low with this kind of misogynistic attitude.[/quote]
I think they were quoting what VG is alleged to have said, someone (can't remember who) said she asked them if they knew any slutty girls.

After the Newsnight interview with PA I heard Alastair Campbell on radio. He had been to one of JE's houses - NY I think. He said he didn't see anything of what was going on, that it was possible to be there and not know. I looked him up about 3 weeks ago and I think he is quoted as saying that he felt there was something a bit creepy about the place but that he didn't see any signs of the girls etc. When I think about it, I think JE was a socialite and a financier, as well as a procurer and trafficker, so I think there were some days when there were 3 girls at different times just for him, some days when there were more girls for who knows how many, and some days when 'important people' like Tony Blair's advisor came to call and the girls had to stay at home or in a cupboard until the important person had gone away. Now, if the important person came round more times than Alastair Campbell did who knows what happened.

A few weeks ago I found a list of the women bringing cases against GM, but I couldn't find it again. However, I looked up Ghislaine Maxwell wiki and there's a list of names fairly far down in the info. One is called Farmer - Maria Farmer I think. That led me to an interview with her -- I think I googled something like CBS Maria Farmer Ghislaine Maxwell. Interesting.