Retrievers: the new Cockerpoo/Cocker Spaniel?

[Killingoffmyflowersonebyone]

I’ve recently noticed a really high increase in the number of aggressive and badly trained retrievers or those with lots of behavioural issues. A few years ago (pre covid and immediately post-Covid) it seemed to be cockerpoos and cocker spaniels.

I foster and in the last year I’ve had two retriever breeds with serious issues - before this, only had one over a six year period, but lots of cockerpoos. I do a lot (3-4) of holidays in the UK and go somewhere new every time. So even though I originally thought ‘oh it’s just tossers getting dogs they’re ill equipped to own where I live,’ it’s apparently not. I’m just wondering if anyone else has noticed it? And if so, what you think the issue is?

Personally, I think they’re ’family friendly’ breeds being bought by the wrong people who don’t adequately exercise, train or socialise their dogs. So is it that?
Poor breeding because of increased breeders for these breeds because of the surge in popularity? Both?

Around me, people have mostly moved on from cockers/poos - I think given the increase in known issues - I see far more young retrievers these days than I do cockerpoos. But I’m really interested to know others views on this are?

Obviously there are other breeds with serious aggression issues or likely behavioural issues but I’ve just never met as many aggressive or problemed retrievers as I have recently…

More than happy to be told it’s just me and I have bad luck (I do walk a lot so there’s a high chance it’s that) but it just feels like it’s gone past the point of bad luck!

I have no personal experience of Retrievers but I do have a family member who is a vet. At a recent get together before we got our puppy, my husband asked her what the most difficult dog breed is. Her response - "you're going to be surprised but it's the Golden Retriever - at our practice we call them Golden Deceivers". You could have heard a pin drop, the whole family was stunned.

Obviously we then asked about Bully XL's, Cane Corso etc and she said that yes, some Bullies etc can be an issue but others not. Same with many breeds; she's personally had a bad experience with a young GSD that lunged for her. But the GR's she finds more concerning because people with large powerful guarding breeds generally know what they're taking on, whereas Retrievers, as you rightly say, are generally thought of as the perfect family pet. She recently had to PTS a Golden Retriever that had turned on its elderly female owner.

I won't pretend that I'm clued up on this breed because I'm not. I just wanted to mention this because it followed a recent discussion with a young vet from a very dog heavy urban practice, so I therefore was not surprised when I saw this thread.

I have a golden retriever and all I can say is as a puppy, he nearly gave us a nervous breakdown.

Are you saying that retriever breeds are suddenly trending? If so, I thought golden retrievers and labradors were always super popular

Interesting. My neighbours have a GR which has bitten them, I was really surprised. But maybe I shouldn’t have been! They are first time dog owners with teenagers,

Retrievers are dickheads.

Bloody good at looking innocent and taking full advantage of all the 'they've got gentle mouths', 'so trainable', 'Here we have Felicity Fossington-Smythe and her seventeen Retrievers working as a team to guide blind orphans along a tightrope away from a fire and then help them with their homework', but they're just as likely to kill chickens, take lumps out of people's fingers in the shark stage, decide to fuck off into a field of cows, resource guard and steal/chew every unattended sock, shoe and child's teddy bear that isn't nailed down in a steel box within a ten mile radius.

But oh, they're not common like a Staffy, so they're going to be automatically well behaved.

I also believe that there's a genetic issue with some lines where they just go.

I live in a town that is very dog friendly. Most households in my neighbourhood have at least one dog.

Almost all the local dogs are lovely, including the retrievers. The dog I actively avoid is The Dulux Menace...an Old English Sheepdog. Horrible owner who routinely "forgets" to pick up after the dog. Both are grumpy and snappy. It has the loudest bark I have ever heard. It makes my friendly, chilled spaniel very nervous.

Horrible owner created a horrible dog.

Goldies do seem popular but I've never met an aggressive one. Not a fave with me (my parents had one who was a real character) because of the shedding and the constant need for attention. Dropped in to a friend who has two and my goodness they didn't leave us alone! One even climbed into her lap at the kitchen table at one point. She adores them and they get three good walks a day so it's not lack of exercise or attention, I've seen this with other GRs too.

I've got a Golden Retriever who is also a dickhead.

She's not vicious in the normal sense of the word but she's clumsy so I have to keep a close eye on her at all times. She's finally by the age of 5 figured that people don't want to be jumped up at and knocked over, which is good, because I can now let her off the lead a bit more. She's also finally becoming more reliable with recall.

They are not easy family pets. Need lots of exercise and grooming.

My other dog is a cairn terrier who is much more biddable.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone I also want to add that I think there is a link between this and two other recent threads that I know you expressed opinions on - the one about people breeding a litter from their family pet, and the one last night about the cost of puppies.

It all comes down to backyard breeders. I'm not saying there can never be a problem dog from a top show kennel or bloodline - of course there can. But, largely, problems occur because people are not doing enough research or background checks before buying a pup and, as ever, the BYB's cash in on this. The more popular breeds unfortunately suffer as a result.

My aunt and uncle had a GS and a GR. The GR was the one that had to be locked away when visitors came - really aggressive. So I’m not totally surprised to hear they can be a menace. Gorgeous dogs though.

Is it a general change post Covid for having more people working from home so a whole group of people who haven’t had dogs as an adult due to both adults having to work outside the home, now getting dogs and not having the time for bigger exercise needing dogs? Missing that in the past these dogs were owned by families where there was an adult who didn’t work or only worked PT and could spent a lot of time exercising, training and playing with the dog, not just being in the same building as it. (one of the reasons we got a smaller dog.)

Also I’ve never met a golden that seems to be aware of its own size and physical space. They all seem to think they are the size of a toy poodle.

Funny you say that about the genetics.
my sister had a retriever and I’m convinced it had neurological issues. There was a change you could see in her eyes and you just had to get out of her way. She was never a particularly nice dog partly due to her absolute lack of training but there were times when you had to be extra wary.
my common staffy people would cross the road from, soft twat.

Just anecdata but all the goldies I know are lovely with sensible, responsible, clued-up owners who appreciate the size and strength of their dogs, the working line ones (unsurprisingly) most so.

But as a spaniel owner I hope the market is moving away from them as I'm tired of the breed being tarred with the 'irresponsible owner' brush when many of us give our spaniels what they need in life and work very hard to do so. It's so, so sad seeing more and more of them end up in specialist rescue or being passed on via P4H (where for my sins I have an alert set up for local dogs) at six-ten months for likely no fault of their own.

That surprises me TBH. The retrievers around here are universally social - some of the younger ones a bit too much, but none are aggressive. There is one lab who can be a bit snappish, but he is old and arthritic which might explain it.

I'll probably now meet a vile young retriever on my next walk!

The dogs that do seem to have the issues are some of the overseas rescues. At least one is dog aggressive (and another might be going that way, not helped by the owner), and several are very anxious. Some of them are lovely, though: one is best buds with my two.

And we have the usual of some quite nervy and over indulged cockerpoos, a very snappish terrier and a couple of bully breed dogs (an American bulldog with no recall being one) that I wouldn't go near.

I think it's the usual issues of people breeding without any regard to temperament, and first time dog owners with no idea.

My elderly friend has a GR. She'd never owned a dog before, but omg has she ever put her life and soul into this animal.

She is such a lady, so well trained and behaved.

I think any dog should be considered as a time vacuum - training, training and training. Consistency and understanding of the breed.

Retrievers aren’t really fashionable around here at the moment - it could be different parts of the country have different dog trends/fashions or simply have known good breeders for some breeds which local people are buying. So I’ve not seen many badly behaved ones- just annoyingly clumsy and complete disregard of what is and is not food - the retrievers I do know have a habit of eating random shit and costing their owners a small fortune is getting socks removed from their stomachs.

I think, as with all dogs, it comes down to the owners and breeders. Irresponsible back yard breeders / puppy farms and people buying their dogs means there could be all kinds of genetic issues. And owners simply not putting in the time, care, attention and training for their puppies - leading to badly behaved adult dogs.

We aren’t in a position for a dog, we often have conversations about what one we would get though. Spaniels ALWAYS come up for DH. He adores them. i know we just wouldn’t cope, they are too clever for us. We would need a dumb lazy dog. They are stunning lovely dogs, but the level of training and exercise for what is essentially a working breed -(similar lines to the retriever really) it’s far beyond a novice dog owner isn’t it.

@BourbonsAreOverated - we have a clever dog, grew up with unbelievable stupid dog and cats, having an intelligent animal in our life was a shock! (She’d been with us a fortnight when we worked out how to open the baby gate.)

My DS now has to play Minecraft with the music off, she’d learned that he was concentrating with that music so if she heard it, she’d bark, whine, hit him with her nose/paw and he’d give her a chew to shut her up. Then she’d eat that and start again. If he was doing homework he’d just stop and play with her when she started attention seeking, she knew the music meant he didn’t want to play with her, and a whole pack of treats /dental sticks could be handed over to shut her up.

@BourbonsAreOverated I would consider myself a novice owner as my 17-month-old working cocker girl is my first dog as an adult. Beyond the initial puppy blues that I'd definitely have got with any dog, and the mindset switch I had to make to having another living creature in the house, I haven't found her hard work. She's bright, desperate to please and I give her an outlet for her instincts and the appropriate training – and I think that's why she's pretty easy. I work for myself, from home, and my work is fieldsports adjacent so I'm sure that helps, but overall I genuinely haven't found it that taxing. I think all the troubles I've had have been puppy/young dog-related rather than spaniel-specific.

They are the best, best dogs. Watching my girl do her thing, under control and in a safe place is unbelievably satisfying and rewarding.

When people say ‘Retrievers’ is this meant more-so about Golden Retrievers or all retrievers?

A vet once called Golden Retrievers Cancer Retrievers because of that prevalence..,put me right off.

For me, I mean Labradors and Goldies.

Flatties (flat coats) I’ve never met an aggressive one and I don’t think I ever could - mostly because they’re not popular enough to have the issues that popular breeds have, I think.

I’m increasingly meeting aggressive Goldies and Labs - not just poorly trained - but actually aggressive, or ones that have severe SA etc.

I think this might be the crux of it. People assume spaniels and retrievers are perfect family breeds so they surge in popularity with dodgy breeding and then, as a PP says, they’re not low maintenance and people forget that and it’s where the trouble starts…

Golden Retrievers have always been popular for sone reason - they're very hairy and smelly and not the most intelligent breed either, so I don't really get the popularity.
IMHO There are far too many badly trained dogs in general.

We have owned Goldies for over 40 years- longer if you include DH's family dog as a child. We currently have 2.
Like any breed you have to do due diligence before you buy- check out the breeder, go and meet the parents, make sure they have had all the health checks.
You have to put the hours in on training- they do not automatically walk on a lead, have recall, or good any manners.
Left to their own devices they will pull you over on a walk, they will jump all over everyone, they will counter surf and believe me they have a very wide definition of "food" if it fits in their mouth they will eat it, they have no idea how big they are or how hairy. They love mud and water and will roll in the most disgusting things. They can get possessive and some will have resource guarding issues.

Training is the key, just because they look like big fluffy teddy bears, doesn't mean you can treat them like a toy.