Retrievers: the new Cockerpoo/Cocker Spaniel?

[Killingoffmyflowersonebyone]

I’ve recently noticed a really high increase in the number of aggressive and badly trained retrievers or those with lots of behavioural issues. A few years ago (pre covid and immediately post-Covid) it seemed to be cockerpoos and cocker spaniels.

I foster and in the last year I’ve had two retriever breeds with serious issues - before this, only had one over a six year period, but lots of cockerpoos. I do a lot (3-4) of holidays in the UK and go somewhere new every time. So even though I originally thought ‘oh it’s just tossers getting dogs they’re ill equipped to own where I live,’ it’s apparently not. I’m just wondering if anyone else has noticed it? And if so, what you think the issue is?

Personally, I think they’re ’family friendly’ breeds being bought by the wrong people who don’t adequately exercise, train or socialise their dogs. So is it that?
Poor breeding because of increased breeders for these breeds because of the surge in popularity? Both?

Around me, people have mostly moved on from cockers/poos - I think given the increase in known issues - I see far more young retrievers these days than I do cockerpoos. But I’m really interested to know others views on this are?

Obviously there are other breeds with serious aggression issues or likely behavioural issues but I’ve just never met as many aggressive or problemed retrievers as I have recently…

More than happy to be told it’s just me and I have bad luck (I do walk a lot so there’s a high chance it’s that) but it just feels like it’s gone past the point of bad luck!

Don't know why but I automatically thought Golden... I agree that Flatties always seem to be nice, but, as you point out, they are far less common so maybe better bred over all.

With regard to Labradors I've had three personal experiences of black Labs; twice I've had one lunge at me with teeth bared for no apparent reason; different dog, different occasion. I am not a random dog cuddler and I pretty much only like my own dogs/chosen breed so it wasn't a case of me approaching the dog.

My previous puppy was also attacked at age 16 weeks (whilst on the lead) by an off-the-lead black Labrador and sustained puncture wounds to his head and face. But this was years ago, not recently, so I don't know if it has any relevance here, other than the fact that my vet relative confirmed that black Labs have a much worse reputation than the other colours do....Suffice to say, it is not my favourite dog breed.

edited for typo.

I think you have a point and I think it’s down to bad breeding and inexperienced owners. I grew up with a GR and now have a lab. They are great family dogs but they do need a lot of training when they’re young. They’re absolute adorable twats for the first couple of years. I used to be a dog walker and the only dogs I told the owners I will not walk anymore were labs! I think some owners don’t have time to train their dogs properly. Get a puppy have a couple of weeks of work and then get a dog walker when you have to work in the office. One was just so strong that I was scared he would pull me over, no recall or basic training. The other hadn’t had much training but could be walked with a halti head lead but when he hit adolescence he was super aggressive towards other male dogs. I don’t think people realise that their adorable cute puppy will turn into a twat teenager within a year. They don’t put the hard work in. I also walked another lab who was aggressive towards other dogs he was so nervous and reactive, not a typical lab in personality. His owners were really good and did lots of training so I think for him it was a breeder problem rather than lack of training. He would jump at the slightest noise. The rescue centres round us seem to have loads of labs and GR it’s really sad because in the majority of cases they would have been great dogs given the right start. And most of them will be great dogs given the right owners.

@Purplegrasshopper I think your penultimate sentence is what really gets me. They are lovely dogs. They really are. My Goldie is absolute world (he's currently got me pinned on the kitchen floor as he's fallen asleep on me) but it took a lot of work to get him there and I wonder if, as others have said and as you have said, it's lack of effort put into training that is partly responsible. People get them for the same reason they used to get Spaniels/Cockerpoos ('good family dogs') and just underestimate them.

I just had to turn down fostering a new Goldie (currently have two fosters with me and I just can't take another) so it's on my mind a lot today as the increase over the last year or so has been so noticeable

I think any breed can suffer from being overbred - look at Frenchies and pugs, for example. They used to always be fairly healthy and hardy little companion dogs, but then they got popular and now they're on the brink of being banned in some places due to how unhealthy they are.

I've also noticed an increase in retrievers around here but generally they're not a problem - however we are rural so most people have the lifestyle to accommodate a working breed which I think makes a big difference.

Do you mean labradors or golden/flat coats? Labradors are very common around my area but have very infrequently seen the others (and I train and compete in dog sports) so intrigued if they are flooding the market in other areas.
As to behaviour, I think a huge amount of people buy the wrong dogs. Good breeders are like hens teeth and you have to search hard and be willing to wait. Most people want a puppy within a few weeks or months of decided, not a few years.
The gumtree market is flooded with puppy farmers and backyard breeders breeding for profit with no understanding of genetics knocking out badly bred troubled puppies, and the worse thibg is its rhe least experienced owners who will end up with the most difficult dogs.

The trouble is, Labrador’s and golden retrievers are always cited as ‘good family pets. However, they forget to mention that to get to this stage, you need to put in a lot of hard work in (owner of a lab), especially in the first year or so.

An apt photo.

Love that picture. 😂

I'm a GR owner. I love my dog so much and he's beautifully behaved. Excellent recall, friendly with everyone, gentle mouth.

However, he comes from impeccable breeding (I did my homework) and I put a lot of hours into socialisation and training. Still do, as it never really stops. He's 5 now. He was a terror from about 12 months to 24 though - still very friendly but seemed to forget all his training.

I don't even think it's that.

It's not bad training or even their 'early years' - there's (at least that I have seen) been a marked increase in aggressive and seriously challenged Labs and Goldies. In my eyes it's bordering on negligent ownership - as with cockerspoos and Spaniels a few years ago where they are bought my completely the wrong people and they end up with severe issues as a result.

I just had to turn down fostering a Goldie (my third in 12 months it would have been) and the issues she has are the same the others had: reactivity, cannot live with children, severe SA. All hallmarks of people buying dogs they're ill equipped to deal with and therefore they neglect them. I do some Spaniel fostering as well and all the issues my foster dogs are displaying are the same ones Spaniels did a few years ago... it's like all the negligent owners have moved on from Spaniels to Retrievers (mostly labs tbh with a few Goldies thrown in)

I think this is it. My family had retrievers growing up, they are lovely dogs but not the 'easy family pet that trained itself' as some expect. They can be stubborn and destructive.

I think people massively underestimate the commitment and responsibility of dog ownership.
When we took our first pup to training class, we were told it would take two years for pups to become the dogs people wanted.

Training is always ongoing. I think too many dogs are not exercised.enough for their breed type either and people have no idea what good exercise is.

No, one particular breed dominating where I live.

Have had both, currently have two black labs.
I certainly encounter more aggressive males from both breeds ( and all lab colours) than I would expect.

I do think, with these breeds, there is a fashion for ‘working lines’ dogs; I read it on here regularly . And I had the same preference with mine. But, they are bred to work, and end up as lap dogs with little to do.

I also think overbreeding of poor lines is rife. I see it near me (NE Scotland). One ‘breeder’ constantly churning out pure breeds and crosses from between their retriever stock. And they sell.

My dogs have taken a lot of consistent training, and a lot of energy has gone into exercising them appropriately. They are what you expect if you knew labs of old. Happy, sociable , bomb proof. But still clumsy.

GR’s are big, strong dogs with massive personalities. They can be amazing but of course they need time, attention and training.
I think because they, and labradors, have been seen as the ideal family dog; many people have bought them with no idea of how to manage them.
My social German Shepherd has been attacked by 1 GR and 3 Labs. He was on lead and they weren’t. One time I let his lead go so he could defend himself and was quickly able to recall him (literally 3 feet away from me) and the Lab ran off.
I do think it’s mostly due to poor owners but once the byb’s are jumping on the bandwagon there are loads of problems.

My knee was badly broken by a golden retriever which ran straight into my legs knocking me over. I wasn’t old (mid 40s) or frail and there was nothing wrong with my bone density. The doctors said the dog hit me with an impact equivalent to being hit by a car. I’m very scared when retrievers bound up to me and my dog now, especially when their owners say things like, “She’s so clumsy, sorry!”

People look at older labs and think oh hey that's easy, they're so gentle and well behaved. Well yeah, but a LOT of work has to go into them to get them to that stage, and if you're not willing to put that in, don't get one.

We have a 4 year old lab. Yep, we had him in covid (he had been planned for 2 years though). He was the most socialised, walked dog ever in his first year. We had a checklist of different people and situations we had to introduce him to in his first 6 months, and most of them could be done outdoors so we cracked on. He needs 3 walks a day (2 of those long ones). He needs boundaries and rules. We had times in adolescence when we were tearing our hair out with him, but he got there with consistency and natural maturity.

When training our Lab’s recall when younger, he came flying at me with such speed and force that he cleared me straight off of the ground. I’m lucky I didn’t break anything. He’s now 8 years old and far more sensible but they are powerful dogs (and he is around 38kg, not fat but just big and strong). No issues with reactivity nor separation anxiety, he just happily snoozes on the sofa when we go out. He has been a lot of work though, endless training and so on. So destructive during his adolescence… 🦮

I think you're right about the lifestyle. There are a lot more GRs around here than there were: lots of new housing estates, people have 'moved to the countryside' and get a dog. But these dogs get walked, off lead, across the fields, and they as are almost all show lines not working, a decent walk seems to do it for them. They are jolly and playful - just nice dogs.

Of the 4 working line GRs in the area, at least three get some decent mental input (one is worked and another will be).

Teddy (my 4th golden) made me cry once when he was a puppy because he was so naughty. He's the best boy in the world now but it's taken him nearly 8 years to calm down. They're incredibly stubbourn, will climb on and go home with any stranger and suddenly go deaf at the beach so training is essential and so is having eyes in the back of your head

My GR was an amazing dog, I don’t think I’ll ever have one like him in my life again, but the first 18 mo of his life was train train train and then train some more and we never had him castrated either. Gundog training helped a lot with his focus. But three youngish ones have appeared in our neighbourhood over the past 18mo or so, so maybe you have a point.

The only dogs that ever bit our boy was the other two GR in our small market town and the Daschund that went to puppy class with him. He bit, no really attacked him every single time he saw him. Thankfully due to his thick coat he never broke the skin.

I do love golden retrievers (I grew up with them!) but they can be a real handful……

Where I am there are far more labs and I’ve had a few run ins with them, overwhelmingly black ones. Either far too boisterous and leaping at me/my dog with no recall or reactive. Had a horrible incident with 2 off lead ones going for my dog, thankfully he only had a couple of minor injuries but it was horrible to witness. I have a few friends with labs and they seem to choose them thinking they’re going to be easy and docile and won’t need much training

Working in behaviour I do not see a load of retrievers. So I do not have the same experience as the OP.

Loads of cockerpoos, working cockers, and bloody foreign rescues! Who should never have been rehomed to poor unsuspecting owners. Do have a coule of fox red labs who are just being high energy working dogs in the wrong homes but not mega aggressive.

That’s it in a nutshell really. Poor genetics and a clueless owner is a terrible combination for any breed. I’ve been owned by retrievers (from decent breeders mostly) for over 45 years now and can absolutely attest to the fact that they can indeed be utter dickheads. I once heard them described with 100% accuracy as a support system for a stomach and, well….woe betide your socks, pants and Christmas trees. I think everyone thinks they’re the perfect family dog, which they absolutely can be with the right breeding and training, but like any other breed they have their quirks and they’re big, clumsy, completely oblivious to personal space, extremely stubborn and determined. But, if you can get your head around that, they’re also the most fantastically affectionate, loyal, gentle, calm and intelligent beasties, and once past the T-Rex teen stage, an absolute pleasure to have around.

As a long time lab and goldie owner I couldn’t agree more 😂

I go walking with a trainer and dog walker I'm trying to regain my confidence after a bull breed dog attacked my shihtzu. So we walk with a mix chihuahua GSD collie a staff but the one that concerns me is the retriever it's behaviour is odd in that it's hyper really strong minded just naughty jumps at us, despite how amazing the trainer is it can take her a couple of demands to get him to listen the other dogs just listen immediately, he annoys the other chill dogs. There are too many people getting dogs with no clue get them as cute pups don't manage or any training it's crazy definitely since covid people have got dogs and disowned so many are rehoming and rescues can be difficult as you know. Although this has always been the case so many small breeds are snappy with big dogs because the owners have over pampered not socialised same with any with the right home love food training I think any dog can be great dogs needs to be correctly trained from day 1. But this breed is high energy my brother has a Hungarian vizla he's nuts too and takes a strong leader only my brother he won't listen to my sister in law. Most general owners do not have any training or real idea of dogs behaviour. The worst are those who say my dog will never hurt anyone ..The stats are labs and retrievers are the most likely to bite someone but then is this breed more popular maybe there are more of them. Interesting question though

In defence of The Lab, all the snappy dogs in my area have small dog syndrome - they’re all the small breeds such as daschunds, sino Ito, shit zu ,and combinations off, mixed with oodles. If these dogs were bigger, people would say they were dangerous dogs.