Retrievers: the new Cockerpoo/Cocker Spaniel?

[Killingoffmyflowersonebyone]

I’ve recently noticed a really high increase in the number of aggressive and badly trained retrievers or those with lots of behavioural issues. A few years ago (pre covid and immediately post-Covid) it seemed to be cockerpoos and cocker spaniels.

I foster and in the last year I’ve had two retriever breeds with serious issues - before this, only had one over a six year period, but lots of cockerpoos. I do a lot (3-4) of holidays in the UK and go somewhere new every time. So even though I originally thought ‘oh it’s just tossers getting dogs they’re ill equipped to own where I live,’ it’s apparently not. I’m just wondering if anyone else has noticed it? And if so, what you think the issue is?

Personally, I think they’re ’family friendly’ breeds being bought by the wrong people who don’t adequately exercise, train or socialise their dogs. So is it that?
Poor breeding because of increased breeders for these breeds because of the surge in popularity? Both?

Around me, people have mostly moved on from cockers/poos - I think given the increase in known issues - I see far more young retrievers these days than I do cockerpoos. But I’m really interested to know others views on this are?

Obviously there are other breeds with serious aggression issues or likely behavioural issues but I’ve just never met as many aggressive or problemed retrievers as I have recently…

More than happy to be told it’s just me and I have bad luck (I do walk a lot so there’s a high chance it’s that) but it just feels like it’s gone past the point of bad luck!

Definitely an owner thing it's how you raise a dog. My shihtzu is great calm socialised. We do have an issue with boxer dogs he was stood on by a running one a while back and was injured and has always barked at them since I guess he remembers or maybe he senses I'm a bit wary. I'll admit since our incident I avoid other dogs big dogs especially that I don't know because there was no warning no barking no growing it was sudden I was thrown into the main road with the force. There are bad owners not bad dogs on the whole just like in my case I now know it's attacked 4 times previously and yet the owner is too irresponsible to train muzzle and get a strong lead despite police putting this in place it's insane how stupid and selfish some people are. Now I'm pushing to take her to court which I didn't want but it's better I do all I can than a dog or child getting hurt.

I haven't experienced any aggressive retrievers round here. There has been an increase in people getting them though so I can imagine with backyard breeding and poor training it's possible. They have always been popular but there has definitely been an increase more recently. Maybe due to more being shown on places like tik tok as soft fluffy teddy bears and with fun personalities.

My current golden is soft as a brush and is impeccably trained. She's still a dickhead and is thick as a plank. That dog would eat anything and I sometimes look at her and think really how can some dogs provide complex services such as guide and assistance dogs, yet here you are with a pea rolling around up there.
I got mine by accident when 'looking after her for a few weeks due to an ill owner' but I do know she was from a good breeder and tested and impeccable lines so it's not that.

I totally agree. In our area the two dogs with the worst reputation by far are a black Pug and a Min Smooth Haired Dachshund. They will have a go at literally every dog that crosses their path. There's also a very snappy Border Terrier that we encounter regularly.

In recent weeks we are definitely noticing some highly aggressive cockerpoo's but I guess that's a different thread...

Yep, the only dog we actively avoid is one of the local border terriers (though I do keep an eye out for the American bulldog). The owner is clueless, and lets him off-lead despite dog aggression and dodgy recall. The chap who walks him sometimes at least keeps him on a lead but doesn't warn people what he's like.

A lot of it is the owner (lack of boundaries, lack of exercise, lack of fulfillment), some is dodgy breeding.

Some is a combo of breed type and clueless ownership - people get Breed Z coz it looks cute, don't understand its brains and drives, and then wonder why it's digging up the carpet, has zero recall, and is jumping up at strangers.

So @Killingoffmyflowersonebyone I think some of the shift has been people buying "working" versions of the dogs, rather than the usual show type. Labs and Retrievers. Working dogs tend to be lighter in build, whereas due to more aggressive in breeding the showier types are more stocky which just isn't fashionable (thanks Instagram 🙄). The problem is the field dogs have a field based temperament, need training and socialisation, and - yes - may hunt. We have one of each currently (one rescue = show dog type, one we purchased = field dog). They are both very different characters and we love them dearly, but certainly as a youngster I couldn't have treated the field dog the same way as the show type, even though the latter came with sever behavioural issues from a traumatised past.

Having rescued several dogs over the years and fostered, you see it a lot in spaniels, labs and goldies. But I think it has got worse since social media and dogs becoming the ultimate fashion accessory. It is terribly sad.

@Thingamebobwotsit You've likely hit the nail on the head! That and poor breeders and puppy farming + social media. Sigh.

I just find it really sad as all the issues I used to see when I was a vet in cockerpoos/spaniels I am now seeing in retrievers (mostly Labs tbh, sometimes Goldies, never Flatties) when I'm out and about! Saw another one today which lunged into the road to try and get to me and my dogs on the other side.

Maybe it's just more dogs have these issues and I only notice it in retrievers because I own one and foster them...but it just seems so sad. 'Fashion accessories' as you said

My husband's parents acquired a GR bred from working lines a few years ago. Despite them living in a central city townhouse, and MIL having health problems that means she can't walk very far, the breeder thought they would make suitable owners.

Four years down the line, the dog has repeatedly tried to attack different people including children, bolted off on walks dragging PIL after it and repeatedly tried to go for other dogs.

One person on MN meets or knows a couple of GR who are not great and therefore there must be a problem with GR per se and it must be genetic, or bad breeders.

We can all have anecdotes about certain breeds but that doesn't mean that breed is bad.

Personally there should not be show or working type of breeds - they all should meet the single breed standard for the breed - for a few breeds, predominantly the gundogs, there are two very distinct types. Too many people, you see it on MN a lot, suggest you should not buy a "show" type, therefore the working cockers, LR and GR end up in homes where they shouldn't really be.

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners and there are plenty of them.

But surely if vets are noticing an increase in aggressive/unstable Retrievers (or other specific breed) it goes beyond being merely anecdotal?

I know loads of GRs, all absolute idiots but soppy idiots. Never heard of an aggressive one.

But is it 1 vet - maybe just anecdotal, 10 vets - still in the same realm imo, a study of say 500 vets then I would start to question there is a problem. Of course these things have to be picked up early, but it still comes down to nurture v nature. No GR pup will be born bad.

You also have to be very clear as to how some dogs behave at vets - it can be a stressful environment for them.

In 2023 there were 10,447 GR registered in the UK - my question would be at what percentage of proven issues would there be deemed a problem?

I could give anecdotal evidence that many min DH I see are barking, yapping and launching themselves at other dogs, mine included - I do not think there is an inherent problem with the breed, I know their disposition, I live in a tourist area so I see lots of them as they are a "must have" breed and the majority have been purchased by people who shouldn't have dogs and forget what they were bred to do!

Issues should be picked up early in order for work to be done to improve the situation, be it health, behaviour or a specific conformation issue but a few anecdotes, even from vets, does not prove an issue. My opinion of course!

@schloss

I don't disagree. When you consider that there were 38,000 Labradors registered with the kennel club last year compared with 83 Flatcoat Retrievers and 13 Chesapeake Bay Retrievers it does put things into perspective.

You're probably right and I think that we all have our most hated breeds simply based on the fact that we've had an issue with one in the past.

On the other hand, I've come across the OP many, many times on MN dog threads, I believe it is a former vet and a person who has many years of personal experience with gundogs so I'm inclined to think that this may be more than simply anecdotal.

I also foster dogs and dog a bit of dog sitting for friends and family.

I LOVE a clever dog because they learn all the time - and not just (especially not just) what you mean to teach them. They make me laugh and I like being kept on my toes. My first foster collie was a shock though!

I know a lot of lovely GRs and a couple that are more challenging. Both first time big dog owners. Both in Italy sold on the cute puppy, family pet guaranteed lie and just assumed that they would be good natured and biddable. T They are working dogs. They have things they need that a couple of walks a day don't fulfil.

I wish working dog breed came with an instruction manual (all dogs really)

Both are sensible and have and to put a LOT of retrospective training and time into the dogs to make them halfway respectable members of society.

Neither of them would have got a GSD as too.. tricky. GS Need the same level of training and commitment as a GSD but people don't think like that because they look friendly, waggy and smiley.

But both big dogs (especially the males), she'd a lot, need to be trained properly with the breed characteristics in mind and managed as such all their life.

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone Completely agree.

They are the best dogs, and we love them. But you need to be prepared for the instincts to kick in. They love mud, water, running off lead, being in a crowd, never having your own personal space etc etc and if people try and "contain" them inappropriately and don't let their effervescence spill over it is no wonder they end up with behavioural issues. We are very fortunate with lots of open space, but our rescue dog had been cooped up in a flat for a chunk of their history and it definitely had an impact on them. Thankfully they are more likely to be found knee deep in a muck heap now. 😆

I am currently trying to persuade DH we might need a third... as a foster dog (which clearly will fail and end up staying). But he is not convinced... yet.

My brother in law teaches at a village primary in a nice area and 80% of dc starting reception were not toilet trained this September. Not SEN. If people can’t be bothered to teach dc the basics, I guess they be less inclined to train a dog properly. They see retrievers as great, well-behaved dogs… yes they’re fairly easy to train compared to others, but you have to put the time in.

I have a cockapoo ( he's 8) my sister has a fox red retriever( he is 4), she thinks my dog is naughty as he won't go to her when she calls him, but that's just him, he will come to me and my family,he is not destructive or prone to biting, I don't let him off lead as he is overly social and loves going to people for a fuss etc, so is always walked on lead, at home he is a sloth but very good natured. A lot of people have said they would love a dog like him.Her dog she can walk off lead but at home he is dreadful, always whining for food, climbs up people, very snappy and always humping and he is a massive dog to push away! But she classes her dog as better behaved as he can walk off lead! She often quotes about him being a pedigree whilst mine doesn't is that a thing with Lab owners?

Yep, "Golden Decievers", that what our vet calls them too.
I have had 4 and they are generally lovely dogs but are big and strong with big teeth and claws - a male one of ours almost killed a GSD that attacked him, the GSD owner thought it was funny at first but soon stopped laughing!
A fellow Goldie owner on here was complaining about people stroking hers without permission and it does happen far more than it would with a Rottie or Doberman. I have literally peeled a toddler off mine while the mother looked on fondly
They look like big teddy bears but aren't and do need good training and boundaries, they are also prone to Resource guarding (our current one used to be terrible)

I enjoy reading the dog threads-my lifestyle means a dog now wouldn’t be a good idea-but hell, reading this thread and others, I wonder why so many people have dogs! Years of hard work, SA, biting, cannoning into people and it takes an age to train them? My last dog was a lazy greyhound, half hour walk, snooze all day, did what he was told, waited to be given permission to eat his food-easy dog. Why do people get difficult ones?

I think people get dogs because they are pretty or fulfil some other mundane quality they like - because social media has painted particular dog breeds as being 'easy' or 'family pets.' They don't realise what they are getting into, or they do not care or they think it'll be okay because they it's a 'nice dog.' These dogs then become 'difficult.'

Some dog breeds are harder than others - my DP used to own a Malinios and that is a difficult breed to own because of the requirements of owning such a breed - but very often it's just people being selfish and the dog becoming difficult as a result.

My most recent foster Goldie was relinquished because she snapped at the owners child and caught the skin. When she came to me she was so unfit and unhealthy, not groomed, long nails etc...really horrible. As a PP said, she was 'fashionable' and that's why they got her - not because they could give her what she needed.

Everyone has a different definition of difficult and everyone wants something different from owning a dog.

Personally, a young, healthy dog that barely needs any exercise and just sleeps all day sounds dull as anything.

It depends if you're referring to puppies or rescue dogs.

With a puppy, most people probably don't set out with the intention of getting a difficult dog, but you learn as you go along. The first puppy is always the hardest.

With a rescue, well, I suppose when you adopt you don't completely know what you're going to get with regard to challenges that may crop up. I admire people who could do it but I know that I couldn't, despite almost 50 years experience of large dogs.

As for the more demanding breeds (which mine is in some ways) I suppose some of us just like their personality quirks. If you find a breed that completely suits your personality it can be bliss 🤗

Never seen issues in flatcoats . Where in the country are you

Flatcoats are riddled with health and then usually behavoural problems due to the health issues I guess though they all die so young it may not seem such an issue...

I meant I've never seen an aggressive Flattie! 😁

They have serious health issues - but I'm yet to meet one that was aggressive. They're just idiots and age very slowly (even more slowly than Goldies) and are perpetually young and stupid.

Even the best trained Goldies are clumsy though.
When we got our first a friends family got one from the same litter and it accidently knocked their 2 year old downstairs and fractured his skull.
I was dragged through a load of rosebushes by one of ours and had numerous bumps and bruises and a friend had her knee dislocated by hers when it ran into her.

I get that but maybe some of those people who can’t control their dogs or have them going slowly mad because they want to be running outside 8 hours a day might be better off with a low energy dog. My grey could do hill walks with me but was quite happy with his half hour. He died 10 years ago and while I love dogs, know it wouldn’t be a good idea to have another. But if I did, I’d definitely try to choose one which didn’t have all those needs!