Shock collars have been banned in England

[IngGenius]

Shock collars will be banned from February 2024 in England.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dog-electric-collar-ban-b2329041.html

Tbh, it’s probably not pants for her, more you 😂

My last dog was an on lead in public places dog, for the safety of other dogs and humans though, so I totally sympathise, but realistically the only things a long line stops them doing is the thing you need to stop them doing and zoomy type running about, and you can provide running about other ways.

100% agree.
I had no idea that there were so many sadistic dog owners on MN but there you go. Shamelessly parading their lack of understanding of dogs as well as flaunting what fucking useless trainers they are. Happy to say that they will break the law and carry on shocking their dogs.

Cruel, ill educated people should not own dogs. Thank god these devices are banned.

Yes it’s changed as we’ve learnt more. We applied to rehome a deaf puppy and had to detail how we’d train it. Sadly we were deemed not to be suitable but it wouldn’t phase me. We use check ins with the puppy (terrier) so not much different. Dogs work mostly on body language anyway.

@Flowerly totally agree

Glad to see @EdithStourton on this thread as she has put the point across much better than I could.

Anybody who is open to the use to tools such as harnesses, halti head collars, slip leads and long lines as a way of restraining a dog cannot write off the use of other tools. To do so is putting your own human feelings before your dogs welfare. It is not a case of putting an e-collar on a dog and letting it do it's thing, putting a shock on it to stop a behaviour. That is not training and it is this case that people put forward time and time again in favour of a ban.

But this is MN, and people let their dogs sleep on their beds, bite their leads, bark at the window and jump on the sofa..

I know nobody will be interested in seeing it but I am willing to show anyone my dog pre and post e-collar training. Had it not been for humane use of an e-collar and a period of professional, residential training to condition the tool, she would likely be dead. I put her welfare before my own reservations and I trusted a professional to help us, she is a fantastic dog now doing the job she was bred to do and not chasing wildlife (pheasants and deer don't routinely give you a heads up that they are going to jump out infront of you btw!)

So very pleased to hear this news.

Can't understand why prong collars haven't been banned as well.

Coercing by pain and fear is not training.

Excellent news. They should have been banned years ago, but better late than never. There is no such thing as humane use of a shock collar.

You let someone give your dog repeated electric shocks in a residential 'training' kennels because you were not prepared to, or capable of, training her yourself. Shameful.

@bluedabadeedabada
Anybody who is open to the use to tools such as harnesses, halti head collars, slip leads and long lines as a way of restraining a dog cannot write off the use of other tools. Yes, precisely. Haltis are deeply aversive to many dogs. Front-clip harnesses work by tugging the dog off-balance when it tries to pull (and it doesn't stop some dogs hauling along like huskies anyway, just on the bloody wonk - must be fab for their muscle-skeletal health).

@Flowerly
You let someone give your dog repeated electric shocks in a residential 'training' kennels because you were not prepared to, or capable of, training her yourself. Shameful.
So would you rather that a) the poster had trained the dog badly herself or b) the dog had been PTS?

I'm still wondering why the BSAVA, who admit in their own manual that the 'the prognosis is only fair' when trying to cure off-lead chasing using their methods (p.95), are so keen to remove a proven tool.

Do they want more dogs rehomed, shot by farmers or dosed to the eyeballs on various meds?

@Flowerly
You let someone give your dog repeated electric shocks in a residential 'training' kennels because you were not prepared to, or capable of, training her yourself. Shameful.
So would you rather that a) the poster had trained the dog badly herself or b) the dog had been PTS?

Maybe the owner of the dog should have learned how to train it before getting it. Admitting that she would train it 'badly' is not good enough.

I’m glad they’re being banned.

I spent some time looking for a vibrating (NOT shock) collar for my deaf puppy but they all had shock functions built in and I refuse to purchase that in case I press the wrong button in my pocket or something.

Cruel and unnecessary.

@Flowerly I chose to send my dog to residential training with a very qualified Gundog trainer who I had been training with for close to a year, I knew them, I had seen their dogs and I had every confidence in their abilities to help us. Trust me, if they could help us, nobody could. I hold them in extremely high regard and they are have a very common sense approach to dog training, trained dogs are better than dead dogs and live stock.

I would never advocate the average dog owner buying an e-collar and attempting training themselves.

@Flowerly until you have the dog infront of you, you don't know what you are training. I would go as far as saying that a purely positive-reinforcement trainer completely misjudged our dog and was out of her depth. She took our money knowing full well she was not best placed to advise how to train our dog, infact when I got in touch for a further lesson, she asked me to take an online course 👍🏻 that, my friend, is not dog training. It is passing the buck and being unable to admit you cannot train dogs (or humans). All dogs are different. I have a dog who is alive and well, she loves the freedom she now has and she know she must come back and she must not chase wildlife and live stock so we are all good here.

Those opposed to the use of e-collars are completely closed off to the idea of a dog being relaxed and free working on one. Again, I am happy to share with anyone our training journey and my dog on one (before and after). She certainly is not a closed off, fearful dog.

“Those opposed to the use of e-collars are completely closed off to the idea of a dog being relaxed and free working on one.”

No, I just don’t think the end justifies the means.

The choices aren’t shock your dog or it’s dead, that’s a complete false dichotomy.

trained dogs are better than dead dogs and live stock.

Why is the only option though? Why is it so essential to have your dog off lead around livestock? Most people just use leads.

Advocates of e collars just seem to fixate on dead livestock when you could just use a lead and use more mental stimulation.

Flowerly I don't use one of these collars but not all dogs are equally trainable. I say that as an experienced dog owner. I currently have a dog that has such a strong prey drive that she doesn't respond to normal training techniques. I have paid for experienced breed specific dog trainers to work with her and they have confirmed that she is pretty much 'untrainable'.

Please don't assume that dogs with poor recall are the result of lack of effort on the part of the owner. It's not always the case.

My current golden retriever is the only dog I've ever had that I can't trust with recall. I haven't trained her any differently to any of my other dogs.

@lifeturnsonadime be prepared for everyone to tell you that all golden retrievers are very trainable, biddable dogs.

@Flowerly if everyone who got a dog knew exactly how to train it before purchasing it, there wouldn’t be such a huge dog training industry, daft comment.

Oh I've been told that before. I've been told that the gun dog trainer that I worked with for more than 6 months must be sub standard.

Truth is that dogs are like humans, not all comply with breed standards.

I love my golden but she's a headache and a half. I won't let her off lead with a less than 100% recall because she's so big and she's a risk others, it certainly doesn't mean I haven't put in every effort to train her. I have. Every other time I've put the same amount, or less effort in it worked.

@lifeturnsonadime is she a working bred golden or show lines? Both can be very stubborn and goldies will throw a lot of things at you in order to get their own way, loveable as they are 😂

Show. Love her to pieces. She's beautiful and knows it. Also thick as pig shit. Loves food so you think that would be an ample reward but no, totally deaf if there is a sniff of a rabbit.

Why is the only option though? Why is it so essential to have your dog off lead around livestock? Most people just use leads.

I have said something like this several times on this thread:
Because some of us live in places where sheep/ deer/ hares can turn up at any moment. And we want our dogs to have off-lead freedom. Literally, unless I hire an enclosed field at a tenner a time, there is nowhere within 15 minutes drive where I do not risk one or all of those. A muntjac jumped over one of my dogs a few hundred yards from my house a couple of years ago. Literally, right over the dog.

I stock-trained my dogs using mild aversion (not an e-collar). I still keep them on-lead in fields with sheep, but I want to know that if we meet a sheep that's got loose (and we do), or I manage to drop a lead as I open a gate or try to open up a poo bag, the dogs won't bolt and cause mayhem. Some dogs take more than work on a long-line, and having an extra option can be, literally, a life-saver for them.

And as I keep pointing out, the BSAVA admit, in their own behavioural manual, that their favoured pure-positive fixes for off-lead chasing are not terribly effective.
But they want a reliable method banned.
Go figure.

It's really not difficult to hold on to a lead and open a poo bag or a gate at the same time. Lots of us manage it who don't want to inflict pain and fear on our beloved dogs.

Some of the comments on here are disgusting. Train your dogs properly or keep them on a lead. I have a large breed dog and he has shocking recall. I have to use a long line which is not easy with a 45kg+ dog however it's necessary right now untol he improves. He doesn't actually appear to have much of a prey drive even though his particular breed often does but I don't want him going up to people or dogs without permission.

There is absolutely no need for a shock collar. Try and justify it all you like but it is lazy and abusive.

Realistically though, pretty much no-one lives where there’s no wildlife, inner city parks still get rabbits and foxes...

I’m rural, my neighbours on two sides are cows or horses, I sometimes get roe deer on my drive and there’s currently a pheasant living in my back hedge.

Not being able to let your dog off lead where it’d suit you best is kind of the risk you take getting a dog.

Sometimes it works out and you end up with a pretty reliable dog, sometimes it doesn’t and you have to inconvenience yourself a bit to let it have enough offlead time and do more in lead walking than you’d prefer.

I live in an urban area where sometimes someone's pet cat might wander into a park when my dogs off lead. I don't want my dog killing pet cats but I still don't resort to electrocuting my dog. It's a poor excuse.

I think the argument for shock collars is getting pretty desperate if the need to be able to open poo bags is a reason for using one

It also questions the dexterity of the e collar owner who has to be able to zap the dog directly and at good timing for the collar to be effective. I hope they would be able to open a poo bag and hold a lead at the same time

Leads have handles and can easily be looped over the wrist so no need to drop them ever.

My big issue with the whole issue is the ecollar professional lobbyists who use the same language and wording throughout which actively discourages open rational debate. The personal attacks that the group have made on personal individuals an organisations makes it impossible to discuss and debate. Death threats being sent to scientists and organisations being berated is not acceptable.