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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Not sure I can do this anymore (please don't flame me) (long)

445 replies

Solo2 · 02/03/2012 10:30

I don't think I can do this....I've been up the entire night with Rollo (1 yr old golden retriever) who has developed diarrhoea - again.

Anyone who know his history, will be aware that he had this recurrently for about 5 months, where each time he came off antibiotics, he got ill again. I spent nights and days hosing the lawn and kitchen, had no sleep, could never ignore him of he howled at night, as it usually meant he needed to poo...I spent about £2,000 on vet/ vet hospital fees.

I've found it SO stressful having a dog that even when he's not been ill and has withdrawn from medications and now off everything for about 1.5 months, it's been really difficult. I am constantly torn between Rollo's needs and my children's needs and am massively more stressed than I've ever been and a massively worse mother (solo mum) than I've ever been.

Latterly, Rollo hasn't been able to go off-lead as he discovered hunting and won't come back when called. I'm working on this. I've decreased my self-employed earnings to free up enough hrs in the day to do dog walks and training. I pay vast amounts at w/es and school hols to have the dog looked after by his lovely trainer, so that I can focus on the DCs and keep - barely - on top of household tasks and business paperwork.

However committed I am, I did say to myself that, if Rollo got diarrhoea again, I'd have to rehome him. I'm not sure it's fair on my DCS NOT to rehome him really, as I can't give them what they need and give Rollo also what he needs. I feel despairing.

I signed a contract with the breeder that she'd be informed and have a say in rehoming but my DCs - who keep definitely WANTING to rehome him (they have nothing to do with him at all and never really wanted him) and definitely NOT wanting to rehome him, think they could live with him being rehomed near to us where we could still see him.

I'd LOVE my dog trainer to have him - IF she could/would (she has 3 dogs of her own and lives in a tiny flat but she's known Rollo since he was 7 weeks old and often has him to stay). However, I haven't even approached her about this yet. She was supposed to have him this w/e but obviously can't/won't given he's ill and I've NO idea how to manage the w/e (I'm working Sat. am anyway) and have a sick dog and the DCs too...

She would be brilliant at knowing who locally could have him BUT I'm supposed to do this through the breeder who isn't local to us and hasn't had any contact with us/ Rollo, except an email or two when he was v sick some months ago.

I'm torn apart...I know I'm writing after a night without sleep and with a full day of work and dog-poo mopping ahead but...it's not really working is it? I know many of you will be totally aghast at my thoughts on re-homing and I always believed I could MAKE this work for us and waited a lifetime for a dog but...I really don't think I can go on.

I am barely managing when Rollo isn't ill. I must have now spent around £6,000+ in total on him in the last 11 months and LOST income because of having him too. If I didn't have DCs, I could manage. I'm not sure it's fair on the DCs to keep him, even IF they never forgive me for re-homing him.

Not sure what else to say really and am fully aware that many of you will find it appalling that I'm considering rehoming at a time when so many dogs are rehomed (1 yr+ old). He's got a lovely temperament and I'm told by other dog owners that he's 'easy' , except for the tummy trouble.

Have no idea why he's ill as he wears a muzzle ALL the time we're out and about, never eats anything at all other than his Royal Canin Sensitivity kibble (I am literally obsessive at monitoring him) and was fine on that for over a month and on NO medication. He's even had less contact with other dogs than normal, since I've had to keep him to on-lead walks....I think it must be the underlying condition returning.

Have a vet appointment later today (which also means paying for an after school facility for my DCs) as they can't fit me in earlier....

That's where I am today, after a night up and a future streching out before me
that just feels impossible Sad

OP posts:
musicposy · 09/03/2012 15:17

Dooin Grin

Labradorlover · 09/03/2012 15:23

Ear plugs ( I like bio ears ) for you all, for the first couple of nights of ignoring Rollo.

Further to the feeding. Whenever my dogs have had an op, the vets always say feed cooked white rice/chicken/white fish as it's the most gentle food for their system. Have no idea how much your food is costing you, but is that an alternative and possibly less irritating than your Royal Canin?

madbernese · 09/03/2012 15:45

Solo, I have a dog with what appears to be a sensitive digestive system (although she seems to be growing out of it) and I would second an earlier poster's advice to try pureed pumpkin. It seems to be a bit of an American solution but our vet student (over on a placement from America ) raved about it - they apparently recommend it as it stops the runs but works equally well with constipation. I had to buy a whole pumpkin and puree it in batches but was surprised at the effect it has had on my dog. It won't interfere with Rollo's current diet and is worth a try surely ?

As to your comments about the garden, whilst I sympathise, I can't help agree with others that you're just seeing problems and not solutions. Dog & pond does not equal disaster.

BehindLockNumberNine · 09/03/2012 15:57

We have cleared our garden from poisonous plants / plants with berries. Even chopped down a yew tree after Sam fell ill as we could not rule out the berries had caused it...
So that one is easy to solve.

A pond is no problem. We live backing on to a local canal. Sam has fallen in. Twice. The first time he clambered out. The second time he got caught in the reeds and looked pathetic. He got pulled out.
But he is not a real dog, he is predominantly Whippet and as Doin said Whippets are not real dogs!!
Many many dog owners walk their dogs alongside water. Many dog owners walk their dogs on the beach. Many dog owners take their dogs on boats. Some dog owners even let their dogs swim!! Wink He is a lab. Labs love swimming.

Am still not agreeing with your vets. I know you are going with their advice and I understand why.
However, you are feeding Rollo a food recommended by them which is full of allergens and other crap no good for dogs. And you are counterbalancing the unsuitability of it with antibiotics. Does that make sens to you?
When Sam was ill the metronidazole contributed to his diarrhoea. It is a known side-effect of anti-biotics. It was the first thing the vet weaned him off, before even trying to wean him off the steroids.
And even if Rollo does not suffer this side effect, you are effectively giving him bad food and making him tolerate it with chemical antibiotics.
I know the vet recommended this, but how is this healthy? How is this natural?

So, your plan of action:
1.Clear garden of poisonous plants and cat poo (although the latter I am sure is not a major concern)

  1. Find a teenager / pensioner who will walk Rollo whilst you work.
  2. Relax, or at least try to. If you relax, Rollo will.

Take care of yourself.

AllergicToNutters · 09/03/2012 16:33

All of you/us are speaking soooo much sense! Please please please listen to it Solo. I haven't got my dog yet but you are putting the fear of God in me about my suitablity for dog ownership! Especially since I am going for a lab retriever! Cut down the plants, cover the pond with a net - in actual fact my concern would be the children and the pond not the dog (avid swimmers labs are you know.....). So many of us have suggested a teen dog walker - have you investigated this yet? Go on, get a local paper, or walk Rollo past the local newsagent and see if there are any ads there. Ask at school gates if any mums have older children who would like to earn some pocket money. This is do-able. Absolutely. Please try a diet change. What BLN9 says about the anti biotics and kibble combo makes absolute sense. You should be feeling so positive now Solo2. I would be full of resolve to fix this over the next month if I were you. I would love a GR dog but they are out of my price range so am compromising with a Lab Retriever (equally scrummy as far as I am concerned). Put a positive spin on it for your children. They so need to learn positivity and not stress and chaos from you. You can do it Solo2 - you reallly can ...............good luck Smile

ditavonteesed · 09/03/2012 16:49

In what way is your pond unsafe for the dog? goldies love to swim from what I know of the breed (which admittedly is very little), just had a quick look at the royal canin food and I cant believe how many varieties there are and I just made the mistake of looking at the ingredients, it is full of additives. I get that you dont want to try raw, but how about something like Barking heads senitive got to be worth trying something I honestly am quite shocked by the ingredients in the royal canin sensitive. What food did he have before all the problems?

midori1999 · 09/03/2012 16:54

IIRC, the pond is a deep natural one that if Rolo were to fall in he would be unable to get out of, in which case Solo is right to be concerned about that one, but I may be wrong there.

Solo, everyone has the best of intentions here. It is very clear that you love Rolo (and your DC) so very much and just want what is best for them, even at the expense of your own well being. But honestly? I just want to give you a great big shake! You need to give Rolo a lot less time. In your case I would say you need to give him the most basic of attention possible, whilst still including some training.

If he barks and howls then leave him to it. As has been suggested, after a few nights he will stop bothering, so just explain to the DC what is happening and why and that it is best for all of you, because it really, really is, including Rolo. The dog needs someone to take charge of the situation. As long as he's not being forced to toilet in his bed (which would be cruel) then he will be just fine.

I admire your committment to Rolo, but even with his tummy troubles you can still have a lovely pet you enjoy but you really need to learn not to let the dog train you.

clam · 09/03/2012 18:22

Can you not fence off the pond? And let him out to wander/play in the garden with his muzzle on? Then the berries/cat poo wouldn't be an issue.

I absolutely love golden retrievers. My sister had one, and it would have been my dog of choice had I not been allergic to him - and they're too big. So we went for a cockapoo, smaller and low-shedding. He has turned out to be one of the largest cockapoos the vet has ever seen and he sheds hair like the blazes. But I wouldn't swap him for the world. Fortunately he doesn't make me sneeze.

Solo2 · 09/03/2012 19:12

OK. This could get boring for those of you who have followed the complete background, as I'll be repeating myself from other threads! Thank you again for all the input and feel free to ignore what's turning into a v v long thread!

Re. the natural swimming pond - there's no graduated edge, so if he fell in, he couldn't haul himself out. There's pipework and planting round the edge which he mustn't dig up and electrics too plus wire, just under the earth, for the natural pump system - all dangerous for a notoriously digger-dog like Rollo!

Re. cat poo, the vet found a type of unusual worm in Rollo's diarrhoea at one point that they said had come directly from cat poo - which at that stage, he'd eaten in vast quantities. They told me to stop him eating cat poo particularly and as the neighbour cats consider our garden to be their main toilet in the area, I stopped Rollo accessing any soil areas.

The vets have also said DON'T let him drink any water from puddles, ponds and never never go near the sea or salt water, as his sensitive tummy will produce vomit and diarrhoea galore! (Gone are my fantasies about taking Rollo ever to the beach). Again, I feel I daren't risk going against the vets' advice but I realise some of you think I should.

I had spent a lot of money and 2 full days, putting up temporary fencing for one area of the lawn that I thought was dog safe. However, all he did when he was out there was dig massive holes and eat the earth and grass and dandelion and daisy roots in massive quantities, which made him ill again (that was last year). Where he weed, the grass went yellow and died and then he'd dig more very deep holes there. Obviously the garden now looks terrible and it WAS my main hobby and joy, pre-dog. But more important than the destruction of the garden was that it became yet another hazard for Rollo. I could never leave him there unattended.

I then tried only letting him out in the large fenced part with his muzzle on - but all he'd do was scrape his face against the ground and then dig, dig dig massive holes in frustration. So then I only let him go out there when I was free to play with him and supervise - but the time I have for that is desperately limited.

So then someone on here - or in RL - said, look, you don't have to give him access to the garden if you give him 2 good off lead walks a day. This I did - till his recall went a few weeks ago (obviously still working on that) so he only now gets on-lead walks. Haven't found anywhere at all locally where I can know he can't escape under a fence etc and across fields and roads. So currently trying to increase the time of on-lead walks, given he's getting much less exercise than before.

Re. barking: he's NOT a barker. He mostly only ever barks if he's got diarrhoea, to signal he needs to go out. He was brilliant at toilet training and other than when he's ill, never had more than 2 small wee accidenys in the house at all, since coming home at 7 weeks old! But as you can see, barking equalled diarrhoea. So for ages, I stopped feeling able to ignore it and 99% of the time, he did indeed only bark to signal urgent toilet need.

As he got better, he stopped barking at all except on a few occasions when spooked by things like horses in the field backing onto our garden. On that ONE daytime occasion when he barked for 20 mins in fear, immediately my horrible, horrible neighbours telephoned to complain and said he was always barking! Total lie, as I work from home and he never barked normally and I would know. But this again made me totally fearful of letting him bark at all (we've had to go to the police in the past about those neighbours and their house isn't even attached to ours).

So that 'trained' me to become paranoid about him barking. Either it meant he was ill, in which case it woke the DCs too - or it merited nastiness from the neighbours. It's in this context that we all got worried the other night when he barked. We thought - is he ill again? Will the neighbours come round (they can be v threatening)? However, there's been a v v long period, whilst Rollo was fully well on antibiotics (and then coming off them) from August last yr to recently, when he both barely ever barked anymore and I was always able to ignore it, knowing it'd be brief and wasn't signalling illness.

That changed for me when he became ill recently. But of course I'm re-training myself to ignore it again!

Re. metronidazole, it's the antibiotic least likely to cause resistant to other ones and it only ever induced Rollo's poo to go nice and solid! The vets have said it's the lesser of two evils and warned me much more about steroids.

I am looking into getting a dog walker and have a contact possibly. There IS an issue about me needing them to pick up and deliver back Rollo at exactly a certain time, related to my type of work - but it may be possible still, to have a dog walker.

However, it really isn't the dog walks that are the worst of my stress. It's the having to get up so early to get him across the road to toilet first thing in the morning and the need constantly to be aware of his needs and exercise etc etc and never being able to follow through a task, in the incredibly limited time I have to do anything, because of Rollo's needs added to the DCs needs. However, this is clearly the area I can work on most, given all the helpful advice here - and stop worrying so much about Rollo's needs!

You'll be pleased to hear that last night I had a bath for the first time in 8 months (I shower every morning, I hasten to add), leaving Rollo barking and howling downstairs - and ignoring him. He did eventually stop, although it wasn't exactly a relaxing bath - but I DID it!! Major luxury for me!

We have 2 cats who are house cats and virtually ignored. I think I've considered a dog to be much more like another child than a cat but perhpas my attitude should be leaning towards some healthy neglect. I think I'm confused - or certainly have been - because pre-dog, when I read this forum, there was so much about the hours and hours of input a puppy needed with training, walking, interaction. I think I'm still influenced by all that stuff and still get aghast at RL friends who have a new puppy who spends most of his time in his crate, doesn't get walked every day at all and the 2 adults in the house both work more than fulltime (they do have a housekeeper though who I think lets the pup out into the garden). They say it's easy having a pup.

Maybe they're at one end of the spectrum and I'm at the other!

Rollo has just been picked up again by his trainer (I hear you all sigh!). I do admit to feeling masses and masses of relief, knowing that although I'm working tomorrow morning, I can sleep in till 7am, don't need to think about fitting in dog walks and can have some continuous time, between child care too, to do a few urgent household tasks.

Is that a sign that really I can't truly cope with having a dog, if I feel such immense relied that he's not here? He's going to have a brilliant time with the trainer as usual as she has 3 dogs he adores playing with, has nothing else to do with her life other than dogs and training and has loads of friends with dogs who love Rollo too...

Perhaps I should start a dog-blog or make an X-rated horror version of "Marley and Me"!

OP posts:
minimuu · 09/03/2012 19:52

Yawn is this still going on!! The doghouse needs to get the reputation for being the most patience thread on MN.

All dogs have problems, there is no perfect dog you love them warts and all or you don't. There will be problems you deal with them, or you don't your choice

There is always a solution if you want one and can be bothered - you would think this is a world crisis not looking after dc's and a goldie

I can here a BUT coming.............................

misdee · 09/03/2012 20:00

You know what. Sod everyones advice. Do what's right for you.

minimuu · 09/03/2012 20:05

here obviously = hear

midori1999 · 09/03/2012 20:12

I'm shocked Minimuu, you are usually one of the most patient posters in here.

feesh · 09/03/2012 20:16

Solo2, I seem to remember that you once mooted that your kids also suffered with frequent diarrhoea and someone suggested that maybe your tap water was to blame? Did you ever look into it? Have you tried everybody on mineral water for a month or so for Rollo and the rest of the family to see if it makes a difference?

feesh · 09/03/2012 20:19

By the way, I too LOVE days when my dog isn't around (either the day after holiday before we pick her up from kennels, or if I'm ill and send her off to a friend's house). It doesn't mean I don't love her or that I shouldn't have a dog. It just means I really enjoy a bit of me-time! If we didn't live in this country, I would definitely send her off to a dog sitter every now and then for a break (just like if I had kids they would spend the occasional weekend at their grandparents!). And I don't have a job or any other responsibilities!

feesh · 09/03/2012 20:22

Do you know anyone else with a dog? When we're in the middle of a dust storm and/or heat wave and I can't walk the dog, I send her off to a freind's house for puppy play time and it tires her out nicely. I also have other dogs come over here for a couple of hours to return the favour and tire her out. Can you do that occasionally?

BehindLockNumberNine · 09/03/2012 20:23

I had missed the bit about the pond sides, my apologies.
But you knew you had that pond before you got a dog. Were you honestly planning never to have your dog in your garden?

Either way, at the end of the day we can only give advice. Only you can decide which advice you wish to follow (if any)
Only you can decide if you can carry on with Rollo.

But no matter what, I do feel that if you give Rollo up his future chances are bleak. Only you will know if you will be able to live with that thought when you do give him up.

You have to do what makes live easiest for you. You admit you are not coping. Yet when people offer suggestions you are not able to accept any of them, there is a BUT around every corner.

None of us have had it easy with our dogs. Back in October / November Sam was at death's door, two vets advised to have him pts because of disastrous gastro intestinal issues which caused liver failure and septecemia and he needed two blood plasma transfusions to get him through. At the same time my dear dad was in hospital dying of cancer at the age of only 65 and horridly suddenly and unexpectedly. It was a truly awful time. Dad passed away, Sam pulled through.
Sam will always have a sensitive stomach. The vet has warned me he may needs steroids for life. But I am going down the raw route and the slippery elm route to try and avoid pumping him full of unnatural chemicals for the rest of his life. Had to go through a few vets before I found one on my wavelenght.

Yes it is scary. Tried Sam with raw tonight, not an overwhelming success (he forgot to chew and sicked undigested chicken back up) But I am going to perservere for a little while, I think the health benefits are worth the perserverance and at some point the daft dog will realise he has teeth and is meant to chew his food.

I am going to bow out of this thread now, I feel for you, I feel for Rollo. You need to do what is best for you. But you must also accept that many of us have had similar issues and are sharing our successes / solutions with you. But if you are unwilling to try harmless additives such as slippery elm and are only willing to listen to your vet then why ask us in the first place?
Unless you wanted us all to say 'there there, of course you must rehome'.

Best of luck with Rollo. Whatever you decide.

SconeInSixtySeconds · 09/03/2012 23:07

Behind don't worry about sicking up the chicken, please, even my labs who have been fed raw from 11weeks occasionally do that if they've eaten too quickly!

Solo, dogs can grow out of digging, my bitch used to be a little horror for digging holes at the boundary, but now she doesn't. That phase won't last forever. I still think if you feel relief of that nature when you know you don't have him for a few days then it's only sensible to seriously consider rehoming.

As an aside, I have labs too! They think that having a pool in the garden is just the best thing evah. I'll put a picture on my profile...

musicposy · 09/03/2012 23:40

Eeewww, you've just reminded me! One night Poppy had obviously thrown her dinner down her neck too fast and threw up a load of chicken on the bed. I was awoken by the sound of her re-chewing it Envy

Yes, they do often grow out of digging. Both our dogs were terrors as pups. Last year we had huge holes (and I mean huge) all over the garden made by Poppy. DH was going spare over it. This year she seems better - so far - and old sheltie would never put himself out to do that nowadays :)

feesh · 10/03/2012 06:45

Sorry to hijack, but what age do they grow out of digging? Mine is 12 months and it's definitely reduced, but she does still do it

swallowedAfly · 10/03/2012 07:42

sadie ate the cherry tree i was given for mother's day last year. it was as tall as me and looking like it would grow into a lovely tree but sadly no, it was a chewed out of existence by the lab. she was a big digger too, haven't noticed any digging for a while and she's about 15months old now.

they do get loads easier, honest.

AllergicToNutters · 10/03/2012 08:15

now we just need Sol2 to either chill out and enjoy her dog with all the wonderful advice given on here (and previous threads) or to finally admit she cannot cope at all and seriously investigate rehoming possibilities. So, come on solo2, take decisive action and let us all see a happy ending all round.

AllergicToNutters · 10/03/2012 08:21

Just out of curiosity solo2 is there anyone in RL who advises you or who could help you out? I know you are a solo mum to two (many of us are) but there must be someone you know who is a friend or family member who can offer support/advice. I want you to keep posting on here as we all want to see a happy outcome for you all but it comes across like you are completely alone in all this. There must be mums at the school who could help - even if it is to have your two dc's for tea/sleepover (I realise this may be diff with aspergers child) but there are ways around this situation for sure.

Hellboy · 10/03/2012 09:44

ive followed this thread from the beginning and have resisted posting because everyone else has said what I wanted to.

But, and I never ever say this, I think this poor dog may need to be rehomed perhaps.

You are not willing to try out ANY of the suggestions, there is a "But but but" to everything. Slippery Elm will not cause any problems if it doesnt work but might be a massive help if it does. If it was one of your kids wouldnt you try anything to help?

If it does come to it and you think of rehoming / PTS would you at least try raw / slippery elm then? Please say you would?

musicposy · 10/03/2012 10:25

On Allergic's theme, I've been thinking this for a while. I say this with the best of intentions, and you don't need to answer. But have you ever thought about getting some help for you, not just the dog, maybe something to help with stress/ antidepressants/ acupuncture/ hypnotherapy/ relaxation/ counselling/ herbal calming remedies, whatever might help really.

The reason I ask is, I've been quite depressed and have gone on antidepressants twice in my life. Both times beforehand I got that nothing was solvable, everything was too much, too overwhelming. It wasn't that I was imagining my problems- I wasn't, but I just couldn't get round them. Once I got a bit of help I could suddenly see that there were possible solutions to some of life's difficulties and I stopped sweating the small stuff so much. It was only after taking them that I realised just how badly everything had been getting me down so much before and how much I had been making every problem into a mountain.

In all honesty, whatever anyone says to advise you, you usually have a reason to say no, when there really doesn't need to be. So I do wonder if you're just a bit too bogged down by it all to see the woods for the trees. It's just a thought. If you don't want to answer this aspect, I understand, but I did want you to think about it. The onlooker sees all of the game, as my mum always says. :)