Should I marry a murderer? Netflix

[IAmKerplunk]

Has anyone watched this? I have just finished it. Honestly I feel mixed about Caroline. Don’t want to say too much in case others haven’t finished it.

I remember the story being reported but didn’t know how much else went on in the lead up to the trial.

No, she’s no longer on the register. It was in the media last week. It didn’t say what she is doing but I presume her job would be hard given the now-public issues.

i think the CPS and defence KC showed breathtaking misogyny. Just because she was an intelligent doctor did not make her any less vulnerable as a woman. I thought she was extremely brave and she obviously had become acutely mentally unwell as a result of the stress and lack of support.

It’s very sad how she was let down.
The misogyny was disgusting actually and he didn’t even bother trying to hide it it. Absolute prick. Anyone with half a brain cell can see she was struggling, vulnerable and very split.

Gosh I am quite surprised at some of the comments here. She was a vulnerable woman who didn’t do anything wrong except try and manage the horrendous position she was in. And she got completely let down by the police. Why arrest the men when they couldn’t detain them. Why not protect her whilst they are looking for the body. Why were they so lax that somebody told the boys about the red bull can. I would have been terrified. I thought mumsnet of all places would see the horrendous nature of this for her. Yes she was all over the place but wouldn’t you be!!!!

I feel the Producers took advantage of her, as any would in making their programmes appealing. The last part at the end they keep in, where she acts all giddy about the filming being over. They kept that in for particular effect. Really patronising.

Did the Producers ever stop and think what a bad idea this series would be for Caroline, her family maybe - especially any prospects of her practicing in medicine with credibility; no. But they surely knew and I believe could have teased out more conflicting presentation from Caroline on purpose. They would have loved watching James fight to hold back and almost disdainful belittling laughter.

My long winded point is; we are simply indulging here in a slight gratuity spectacle that is an entertainment series without fully, entirely understanding or knowing who Caroline is as a person - particularly without the editing and influence of Production.

I agree that her position as a vulnerable woman was grossly ignored. I can't put my finger on the exact reason for my discomfort towards her /the presentation of her. The filming/ recording she does constantly has a huge influence.

I imagined, if she was involved in tending to my dead body, would she be all too eager to share the details of my every unappealing orifice in chat with her friends.

Very good points. Why did her, very sensible straightforward seeming, parents agree to take part. I noted her sister (?) was blanked out.

Caroline seems astonishingly naive.

On any inappropriate dead body chat, from talks attended some pathologists do have gallows humour/overshare & may not completely anonymise to their circles.

On payment re: Netflix, & the only good (?) rational reason I can see for doing so is ££. How true is it that the ‘subjects’ get little? The videoing etc filming so astonishingly unwise to hand over freely to producers as surely family will have known/advised (?)

I agree.

I would have nothing to do with this unless it was in statement form only, because privacy and not being in the public eye would be my priority. I'm anti SMedia and all things like that for myself ( apart from MN). So I understand why some would not be part of this. You can't trust Producers to present the truth also.

I watched this twice. The second time, I realised there's a dearth of information about Sandy, other than Caroline's presentation. That is also skirted over. She talks about the darker version of him prior to discussing the obvious huge dark thing he did, only briefly, once I think. It made no sense that there wasn't a wider circle of information/ perspectives on him.

The presentation did not always match up with what he did. I believe this series will ignite multiple sympathisers, women trying to contact him in prison including new pen pal admirers.

I almost missed the bit where the pub landlord talks about his drinking issues and change in behaviour. Was it deliberate or could they not find anything else here to broaden the perspective beyond Caroline's story?

When they zoomed in on the C4 programme they included of him shedding a tear; I felt some compassion toward HIM and questioned who he actually was. ( So that show's the power of Production).

I feel the series did not present enough about him. I believe there must have been much more there that she didn't see, realise, acknowledge. ( Like many of us do). No ex partners to dig up here on him; anything? It was odd.

I thought she was very brave. Police Scotland on the otherhand!

I think it’s very difficult for anybody to judge her actions as it’s extremely hard to know how any of us would have reacted in this situation. It’s all very well us sitting in our armchairs saying - why didn’t she say immediately - but she must have been in complete shock when he first told her and most likely digesting the information. Then how to deal with it knowing that she was the one betraying him and then trying not to get hurt by him because of it. Then doing all this whilst ensuring she marked the site of the body - I would have been terrified of him seeing that can of red bull she dropped - well he did see it and she still left it there. Then recording his confession. That was a very brave thing to do. None of us can fully put ourselves into another’s story but we have to remember she wasn’t the murderer!!!!! He was!!!!! She marked the spot. She recorded the confession. And yet on mumsnet it’s the woman who gets the flak. Its extraordinary!

And yes! Police Scotland!!! Shocking how those men acted. The man was the murderer. Not the woman. The woman deserved protection. I thought if all places mumsnet would be outraged by that.

She made her choices people are and should be responsible for those, man or women

Just finished this and ended up full of sympathy and admiration for Caroline. What a terrible situation the police put her in. I agreed with the female lawyer that she was treated appallingly. She did the right thing and a good thing.

Yes Caroline comes across as having mental health issues from the start. It's not normal to record as much as she does. She shouldn't have stayed in the relationship. She should not have taken loads of drugs. The ending with the tractor and the waterfall shows the full extent of her mania and she completely acknowledges it. I really hope she stays clean and rebuilds her life.

I came around to supporting her and I'm angry on her behalf. I hope Netflix paid her well. I'd be interested to know how she gets on and hope she get her happy ending. Something tells me she will keep on having drama in her life!

Controversial but I feel that death by dangerous driving was about right as a sentence. Murder was too far. He should not have buried the body and its heartless that he did that.

Why was the one random male friend involved at all. He was such an arse. His one role was she told him what was going on and he cited his wife's pregnancy as a reason to get away from Caroline. Ugh.

I think this teaches us not to report serious crimes. I'd steer well clear of the police.

@PollyBell she should have had support!!! She made those choices because she was let down by the system. She had no support. Even the female police officer said so. Those police men gave her no support because they stereotyped her.

@ZenNudist thats my worry as well. We see it time and time again with the police. That women don’t get the support and protection that they need. This programme has shown it again. Apparently she ‘hadn’t been in the relationship long enough’ and ‘was intelligent’ so didn’t need that support and protection. What a crock of shit. The female police officer was brilliant calling it out.

I’ve just watched it and while I felt the Scottish police failed her on some level, she also totally disregarded their advice on staying at her parents and contacting the police if there were any issues.

Right at the start when she said she’d matched w someone online and she was going in to the Highlands with him I was wtf - surely you meet a first date in the pub for a drink! That made me think her judgement was off straight away as unfortunately she was desperate to meet someone (understandably) - she obv had parental and societal pressure.

My DD said ‘just because she’s a doctor doesn’t mean she’s got common sense.’ Which is very true.

I’m going to watch the other documentaries on this to get a different viewpoint.

Agree, I wondered if he had a crush on her, the contempt was typical male whose been rejected energy 🤮

Not a snarky question but would genuinely like to understand what danger do posters think Caroline was in from Sandy if he found out she had gone to police?
Like if she’d told him straight away when she did and told him not to contact her or her family.

From the information we have been given there is no reason to suspect he was physically violent and he did eventually find out it was her and actually did nothing and stayed seeing her.
What would he have gained by going to find her at her parents with a gun ?
Do you think he’d have gone and murdered them ?

I agree with pp it lacked any real backstory for the brothers.
I think their remote lifestyle in a very small close knit community meant he was also very emotionally immature and possibly vulnerable.
I think he was as swept up in the wild romance and love bombing as she was tbh.
They were both enmeshed in some fantasy.
She obviously got a buzz from that and in playing his saviour and protector after he’d been arrested so I think the toxic head fuck thing went both ways.

How much sympathy would people have felt for her if she had caused an accident drink and drug driving which she obviously did.

I also thought as it was likely the community knew what had happened they all kept silent because they all probably drove under the influence or saw no great issue with it.
With their local knowledge they also probably thought the victim was partly (mostly) to blame for cycling in the total dark on such a dangerous road in the middle of the night with heavy rain.
I can’t remember the BBC documentary exactly but I
sure they insinuated that even his (Tony’s) family thought he was taking huge risks and his bike plan was a bit ill advised and they were already very worried before the accident.
I would bet quite a few rural folks sympathy was and still is with the brothers.
*mine isn’t btw but I could imagine it

I have some knowledge of GMC medical standards and she would have been struck off for failing to acknowledge / disclose significant mental health concerns and addiction which indicate impaired judgment meaning she was not fit to practice, so if she hadn’t left medicine of her own accord she wouldn’t have had much choice to continue after the disclosures in this documentary.

I think that's part of the issue - that we don't know what risk he posed. However, if I found out that my own kind caring husband of 28 yrs had accidentally killed someone, but that he didn't try to get help when they realised he was still alive, then subsequently returned to collect the body to bury in a midden with deer carcasses, I wouldn't be hanging around to see if he was ok with me grassing him up to the police!
And that's someone i know and love. If i didn't know him well, I'd be completely terrified

Not forgetting he was a violent drunk and possibly his brother too.

From what I read online when the guys where first arrested, the community knew something. She was the only one who went to the police.

I'd be very worried about what the brothers would do if they found out it was her who told the police (actually I'm surprised they didn't immediately think it was her, given the timescale).

Someone who has the presence of mind to take the steps they did to cover up the crime - initially while drunk - is a cold and calculating person who only cares about themselves and is willing to take quite extreme measures. They had no consideration for the victim or his family.

They didn't call for help despite him still being alive. They swapped vehicles and they got the vehicle repaired out of the area. They disposed of his bike. They hid the body for a day while carrying out their usual activities. They poured bleach on him and buried him in a pit with deer bones, keeping the crime hidden for years and carrying on with their lives. None of this says "fear" or "panic" to me.

I would be terrified of what they're capable of; further enabled I believe by the sense they'd have supporters in their community/ group, who might be willing to help them do whatever they felt they wanted to do intimidate Caroline, or worse.

The bleach bit is also horrifying. Absolute detachment from empathy, and that's really scary to encounter.

I don’t understand why they thought bleach would speed up decomposition (?) If that’s why they used it. I shudder to think how long he was conscious & alive (!)

It would speed it up, breaking down/damaging microorganisms. Also hence why bleach on the skin should be immediately rinsed off