Who Killed Jon Bonet Ramsey

[Itsonlybridgetagain]

Anyone watching it on Netflix? Half way through the 2nd episode.

not a shred of evidence against the family so far but that ransom note is so so odd

that poor poor girl 😔😔

I’m not an expert on the case by any means. What is the evidence against the Ramseys? No one seems to produce any.

If you can be bothered @O6bftdff read this. Even if you don't agree with her position (which I suspect you won't) she sets out a very comprehensive review including excerpts from statements, photos etc

go.skimresources.com?id=470X1716091&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeeptrouble.substack.com%2Fp%2Fwhy-the-jonbenet-case-still-feels&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mumsnet.com%2Ftalk%2Ftelly_addicts%2F5217556-who-killed-jon-bonet-ramsey%3Freply%3D140258790

very unlikely , there is evidence the DNA is from Saliva , either the child was Abused that evening or Someone opened the packet at the store Patsy bought them from and sneezed or wiped their mouth and touched the underwear .

it really is so strange once you take the facts and look at it more objectively ,
So little DNA and Prints are scattered all over the basement but none beyond that point. Nothing on the ransom note, notebook , pens , pen pot, handles of the spiral staircase, Rope <the one thing that would shred skin from tying the knots > nothing.
There is just one print of boots next to the body , what is it even doing there ? did the intruder hop on one foot ? Did he remove his boots ?

I really hope this new interest in the case and any new advances in testing gets it solved .

Oh that's where you got this idea from that you insisted was fact:

Whoever strangles her isn’t strong enough to break her windpipe or they were careful not to use too much pressure.

Sorry you've lost me @monkfruitmartini

There was no internal damage to the neck ESTABLISHED FACT

I don't remember commenting on the strength of the person. But you can conclude she wasn't strangled with force as often you would see (ie hyoid fracture) in many strangulations.

Let me know which bit of that you are disputing

Ie that she didn't have internal neck damage or that most strangulations done cause damage like a hyoid fracture

Well, most strangulations do not involved the use of a garotte.

Here's were you first start talking about the lack of pressure.

Thank you.

So the evidence against them appears to be

1. They didn’t turn in their clothes for over a year. But they did, in January, less than a month later, when they were asked to.

2. Patsy rang her friends. That’s not evidence of any kind.

3. That John was initially understood to have read to JB then went to bed, and then said he’d been misunderstood and put JB to bed and then read. This isn’t evidence against them.

4. Patsy can’t remember when she put JB’s jumper in the laundry basket. This isn’t evidence of murder.

5. A bizarre claim that the Ramseys wouldn’t speak to police ‘unless they could have access to police reports and the previous reports of what they said. Their lawyers were essentially given everything they needed to get their story straight.’ It’s just not true. They did speak to the police. They were interviewed by police in the days following the murder. In January they requested the evidence, and this was denied.

6. The usual claim that JonBenet had wet herself so her mother killed her. This isn’t evidence.

7. That the Ramseys lied about when JB went to bed and about her eating pineapple. There isn’t a shred of evidence that they lied. JB could’ve been given the pineapple by the intruder. Maybe they lied. Maybe they didn’t.

8. The 911 call and the alleged dialogue. It is not possible to make out the dialogue.

9. That Burke confirms that John lied about JB’s bed wetting. I watched the clip and Burke actually says that if JB wet herself Patsy changed the sheets and John did nothing. He also says he doesn’t know if JB was wetting the bed at six. It’s just not evidence against them. Maybe they lied. Maybe they didn’t.

10. That they lied about the flashlight. There is no evidence of them lying. Maybe they lied. Maybe they didn’t. There is no evidence.

11. That police allowed the Ramseys to disrupt the crime scene. How is this the fault of the Ramseys?

12. The ransom note. Maybe Patsy wrote it. Maybe she didn’t. There is no evidence she did.

13. That the parents said Burke was asleep but Burke said his mother woke him up. He clearly hasn’t been asleep for the past thirty years. He did wake up, obviously. Just not while John checked the room the first time.

14. Speculation based on no evidence that Burke was extremely violent. Maybe he is a psychopath who regularly beat JonBenet. But yet again, there is no evidence. Only theories.

15. The nanny says JB wet the bed. But the snippet actually reveals that the nanny left when she was four. Also, even if she did, this confirms JB wet the bed and nothing else.

16. Speculation Burke was sexually abusing JB based on no solid evidence.

17. That the Ramseys were leaking to the press. The Ramseys argue the police were doing the same. It’s not evidence of murder.

Then there is the claim that a stun gun couldn’t have been used (and I do think it would be very unlikely), and that there was an undisturbed cobweb. All that this would do, even if the cobweb theory held up which it doesn’t, is show that an intruder didn’t use a stun gun, and didn’t disturb a cobweb by coming in that window. It isn’t evidence against the Ramseys.

I don’t think I’ve missed anything. None of it is evidence that any of the Ramseys killed and sexually assaulted JonBenet. It’s just theories of lies, of bad tempers. It’s not evidence.

The nanny says JB wet the bed. But the snippet actually reveals that the nanny left when she was four. Also, even if she did, this confirms JB wet the bed and nothing else.

Patsy has said JB regressed when Patsy was first going through treatment for ovarian cancer when JB was three and began bedwetting. But that she was only bedwetting occasionally now. This was confirmed by the housekeeper of the Ramsey's holiday house.

Women cover for husbands who have raped and murdered all the time.

Women cover for men who rape and murder their daughters all of the time? What are the statistics on that?

I was happy to believe Burke hit JBR over the head with a torch for eating his pineapple because it's the least worse scenario in terms of her suffering.

However I think it more likely she was killed by a paedophile. Either a stranger, a family friend, or a family member.

Without wishing to share too much I was the victim of CSA by a family friend. The wife was well aware. In fact she would purposely walk the dog when she was meant to be looking after me and left me alone with him. So I have no doubt a woman is capable of helping. Or turning a blind eye. Perhaps convenient the child's bedroom was so far away from their own.

And tv interviews, while not evidence, do sometimes make you feel like something is 'off' even if you're not sure what.

Like Ian Huntley, Tracie Andrews, Mick Philpott and Stuart Hazell. Too many tears. Not enough tears. Weird body language. Avoiding using the victim's name etc. just a general sense that something is not right.

It's really hard to say what you would or wouldn't do in an emergency situation but I think if I'd just read that note I would be so scared someone was watching the house I definitely would have told no one other than the police. Maybe not even them if I had the money to pay the ransom.

Sorry to hear you are a victim, that is awful.

I agree many women turn a blind eye to sexual abuse. But covering murder of their own daughter and defending the perpetrator so publicly for so many years has got to be vanishingly rare.

Agree that sometimes something seems off, but there is also confirmation bias. Look at how many people were adamant about Christopher Jeffries, the McCanns and Nicola Bulley’s husband being guilty of being murderers.

But covering murder of their own daughter and defending the perpetrator so publicly for so many years has got to be vanishingly rare.

She was terminally ill, that may have affected her decisions. And it doesn't matter if something is rare, just if it's possible. I don't know what sort of morals Patsy had or what her priorities were. I do know that a lot of women don't believe their own daughters until it's too late. And paedophiles are very manipulative, controlling, charming. It's impossible to say one way or the other.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/jonbenet-ramsey-case-may-have-link-to-unsolved-1997-boulder-rape-dad/

I knew nothing of this absolutely compelling case. A girl two miles away from the Ramsey house, sexually assaulted by an intruder who’d broken into the house whilst the residents were out and acted after the household was in bed. The girl went to the same dance school as JonBenet.

How do you explain that there were no fingerprints on the ransom note from Patsy or John @O6bftdff?

The pages were left at the bottom of the the spiral staircase which Patsy came down that morning. She didn’t know it was a ransom note at that point so wouldn’t have thought to preserve the kidnappers (when she didn’t know a kidnapping had happened) fingerprints. Anyone would have picked it up as they came down to see what it was. She would have recognised it was from her notebook.

We are expected to believe she knelt down and read it, without touching it or picking it up which is totally beyond belief, neither did John. That is the clincher for me.

There was evidence that the head injury happened at least 45 minutes to 2 hours before the death by strangulation due to the brain swelling and in the autopsy report. This was referred to in the Netflix documentary.

You really believe that a ‘kidnapper’ would break into a house with two adults and two children in, assumingly knowing they had a dog if they’d been watching the house (must have been close to the family to know the dog wouldn’t be there that night), take one out of bed and take her downstairs without a sound, bash her head in, spend up to 2 hours wandering around, sexually assaulting and beating the child in the meantime, going through her mother’s craft stuff and making a garotte, leave a ransom note in clear view on the stairs that anyone could come down at any minute, return to the basement and strangle the child then disappear leaving no trace of fibres or DNA or making any noise. Just taking their time.

I mean honestly even if you really want to believe a parent/s is not capable of such a disgusting crime, or at least covering it up, you’d have to completely disassociate with reality to believe that.

Wasn't the ransom note written on a pad from the house? An intruder would surely have written the letter before getting there, not in the house. Wasn't the handwriting supposed to have been similar to Patsy's?

That case could well be linked @O6bftdff. If cigarette butts were found at both properties, surely they were DNA tested? No DNA match from the rape to the unknown DNA found in the Ramsey case? The rapist fled when interrupted so no time for clean up so surely there must have been something left behind? That would have been pretty simple to tie the cases together.

It was also a very long winded and ridiculous note that was written in handwriting very very similar to mothers. All the people saying there is no firm evidence - I get that - but what a bizarre coincidence the note was long and rambling in an emotive manner (well rested ?!) and written on family notepaper, not to mention the killer had almost the exact handwriting of the mother. You really have to believe in coincidence for that.

I would say their fingers weren’t very oily having just woken up. We don’t leave fingerprints on everything we touch.

I can’t seem to find the evidence of the time period between the head injury and death?

Like the very similar case two miles away, an intruder could have been in the house for hours before the Ramseys returned. A lot of time to make the garrotte and write the note.

The father in the Amy case said the police wouldn’t take the case seriously and wouldn’t look into whether they were linked.

It wasn’t almost exact. Handwriting experts couldn’t say it was Patsy’s.

Reading the note again, it reads as something that journalism graduate Patsy - not thinking properly at the time - maybe would assume to be effective, to throw people off the scent when she was in a rush to cover the tracks of whoever she’s protecting - the exclamation marks to grab the attention of the reader, the misspelling of two words in a long note that is otherwise fine in terms of spelling errors, dialogue from movies. It’s a note that feels artificial and not thought out but the author believed this wasn’t the case. I can’t believe an intruder wrote that note.