Baby Reindeer - Netflix

[Spratt]

Got a day off today so I’m binging Baby Reindeer. Two episodes in and it’s great so far, I see that it’s previously been a stage show but I’ve never heard of it so looking forward to finding out what happens. It’s about a comedian being stalked by a woman in her 40s.

He's also married to Jessica Raine from Call the Midwife

Oh my gosh! That's a good spot.

Came to see if there was a thread after watching the 4th episode last night, very intense and harrowing.
Agree with others about how awful the victim blaming is.
As for outing 'Martha' I don't know how that will play out, did he want to? If I did can you blame him? This is a man who's been really terribly abused. Yes I understand that she has MH issues but so do a lot of people dramas are made about, by definition serial killers etc all have MH issues right?

But, and I've only skimmed and maybe it comes out in later series, what's with the terrible spelling? Such a small thing to fixate on but she was definitely university educated? Why would her SPAG be so bad? Is it quick typing as she's franticly messaging him or something else?

Watching - will come bank when I've finished it!

Gosh this was far darker than I imagined.

I enjoyed the series but I think it is absolutely awful that the real Martha was so easily identifiable. It would have been possible to change all the little details (her nationality, former job, physical appearance, the nickname she called him and specific phrases used, details of previous stalking) without changing the substance of the story and its impact at all.

Gadd may well have done it deliberately out of some sort of desire for revenge or been simply too naive to anticipate the outcome but Netflix as a massive corporation should have checked this out thoroughly and prevented it happening.

Wouldn't she be identified anyway.

People could track down details of his shows which had the identifying details and thus onto her. Harder but not impossible.

Maybe so but (a) it would be more difficult as you say to find them in the first place and there would be more opportunity for anyone they did find to deny it and (b) in that case Netflix would be able reasonably to say they didn’t abdicate their duty of care.

Netflix, which will be making millions out of this, has a responsibility to do what they can to protect those they are profiting from. Gadd too imo but he is perhaps mentally unwell himself.

So, did Fiona Harvey actually have convictions or not?

Is there a spoilers thread for this? I'm reading about this and whilst it seems like an interesting programme I'm hearing the words disturbing and harrowing about certain episodes and that worries me. I'd like to know what these episode contain before I choose to start watching it as I'm not up for anything extremely dark.

If you have any kind of trauma caused by stalking or SA, I’d say that you should view it with extreme caution.

It’s probably the most potentially triggering thing I’ve seen this year.

As far as I know, there haven't been any. There was maybe something like a caution in regards to the Scottish MP but she says they didn't process it correctly so even that didn't happen.

Thanks, I do have some experience of that sadly. Even reading about it was a little triggering (which I hate saying) so I might need to be cautious. Did the lead character find any peace at the end of it at all or was it all very dismal?

It depends what you want. If you want a happy ending with "closure" it's not for you. If you want something that explores the ambiguities and confusion around the whole experience, without oversimplifying anything, you might enjoy it as I did.

With all the media frenzy in recent weeks involving Piers Morgan, the "real" Baby Reindeer, Netflix, queries about how much is true, and now MP's getting involved (they should confine themselves to rescuing the economy), I'm inclined to increasingly think that eventually it will be exposed as a very successful hoax.

And an extremely lucrative one for somebody.

She's going to be a guest on the James English podcast according to him 😂

This isn't somebody who doesn't want to be found, she's absolutely revelling in her notoriety.

I'd save your sympathy tbh, she doesn't need it.

My unease with this lies with the continual statement:
this is a true story.
Not, this is based on a true story. Or some scenes have been created to add dramatisation. Or some of the characters are not real and have been used for dramatic purposes.
You get the drift.
Almost ever dramatisation going, including
things like The Long Shadow, which was based on the victims of the Yorkshire Ripper, say this.
To say ‘this is a true story’ well absolutely every aspect should be factual without doubt and where is the evidence that it is?

Maybe it is. But unless there is proof of all of this, including the prison sentence and the trans woman then I think Netflix are on very dodgy ground.

I’m also uneasy with the victim blaming going on but I do believe if Gadd was a woman there would be a hell of a lot more victim blaming,
I feel the episodes around the older man would be reputed out as being the victims fault, if Gadd were a woman.
All in all very bizarre.

my colleagues at work are totally victim blaming,
its terrible.

I know a few folk have said this. Im interessted as to what part of this do you imagine to be a hoax? Or do you think the entire thing is a social experiment?

He's been doing the show for years on stage. The actual tweets etc date back to 2014. So if that's the case, then it would have been 'planned' for 10 years.

You think RG is just going to turn up on Lorraine one morning with Fiona and say "we all had you there? You didn't really think we would do that to someone do you?"

I'm more inclined to think it's a case of 'Man writes explosive script about real life stalker and outs her as possible revenge' (and also because as he said himself, he craved fame and attention)

He knew it would be well received in a voyeuristic way. He knew she would be outed. I believe he deliberately kept saying that "she wouldn't recognise herself" knowing the reverse was true.

And still everyone knows who the rapist is, but protects their identity. <shocked, not shocked>

Edited to add, I agree about extremely lucrative being the motive.

Yes, why had the male rapist not been publicly exposed and their name out out on every social media platform.
After seeing the Interview with PM I’m less inclined to believe that every single thing was true.
I felt enormous sympathy for Gadd after watching Baby Reindeer but since watching the interview and the discussion afterwards I’m not so sure.
That’s a shame as I think if it does turn out that not everything in the programme was unquestionably 100% true, then I fear that victims have been set back yet again.

'Yes, why had the male rapist not been publicly exposed and their name out out on every social media platform.'

Yes it's funny how there wasn't an easily found trail to the alleged male abuser but he'd handily left his alleged stalker's tweets visible so it didn't take a rocket scientist to identify her. Almost as if he was protecting one whilst throwing the others to the wolves.

How can he conceal her tweets?

She was found because of the things she tweeted. He should have not used verbatim quotes, but he has no control over things she's put on on twitter.

'She was found because of the things she tweeted. He should have not used verbatim quotes, but he has no control over things she's put on on twitter'

Well maybe he should've blocked her on twitter but as he didn't then obviously he shouldn't have used quotes that clearly identified her.

As defamation is a thing.

He csv probably prove she sent 41000 emails and stalked him (maybe not jail)

But how can he prove a rape happened? There is usually zero proof or the person says it was consensual. Hence why others can name the lady that they say stalked him :who the character is based on but not the rapist,

Finally watched it. Didn't enjoy it. Didn't like Donny / Gadd at all.

I haven't seen the PM interview but there's something about this whole thing that makes me uneasy. Like there's his side, her side and the truth.