Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Telly addicts

Baby Reindeer - Netflix

346 replies

Spratt · 11/04/2024 12:54

Got a day off today so I’m binging Baby Reindeer. Two episodes in and it’s great so far, I see that it’s previously been a stage show but I’ve never heard of it so looking forward to finding out what happens. It’s about a comedian being stalked by a woman in her 40s.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
JamSandle · 24/04/2024 11:53

BlackFriYay · 24/04/2024 11:35

It's a saddening double standard isn't it?

FWIW I was a 'bad' victim aswell. I made sure everybody knew my rapist was a rapist. He had to leave the town and I have no regrets 🤷🏼‍♀️

The shame wasn't mine to bare and it's not Richard Gadd's either.

Fair play to him.

100%. Abusers so often get away with it due to a lax justice system. Why shouldn't victims speak out?

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 12:24

Yes, fair enough. I think you're right that any concern for the abuser is misplaced.

Although we do protect and excuse male abusers all the time, so there's also the double standard that if the victim were female, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because she'd be unlikely to get this show made at all.

Purplevioletsherbert · 24/04/2024 12:29

JojoSeawitchHasBeenABadBadGirl · 23/04/2024 06:39

I found the end scene alluding to him now being the predator naff as fuck
It wasn't alluding to that.
It was making the point that what happened to him could have happened to any bartender, randomly.
That you do just one act of kindness, drink's on the house, and that one action can have a ripple effect.

I took the ending to mean that he’s become the person people take pity upon - and he directly links it to obsessively listening to her voicemails. I’d have said that’s his moment of realisation that he needs to start to move on.

Curlyblondefemale · 24/04/2024 12:54

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 12:24

Yes, fair enough. I think you're right that any concern for the abuser is misplaced.

Although we do protect and excuse male abusers all the time, so there's also the double standard that if the victim were female, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because she'd be unlikely to get this show made at all.

This is slowly changing but I agree, people make excuses for domestic violence/sexual assault all the time, it's disgusting in this day and age.
It should be called out man/woman, mental health issues or not.
I don't think Richard Gadd invited this into anyone's life, He made a cup of tea for a disgusting animal of a woman.. His responses once he realised what she was capable of were naive but come from a good/kind place.
I haven't looked at her Facebook but from what I've read she's now a homophobic racist, I find it hard to sympathise.

taylorswift1989 · 24/04/2024 13:06

Well I don't think there's a good excuse for not allowing his partner to report a physical assault to the police. Tbh, I feel he did put the people around him in danger, although of course he's not responsible for her actions.

ICantThinkofAnythingClever · 24/04/2024 13:10

I don't think anyone owes anonymity to their abusers either. And in fact, the more I think about it, the more obvious it is to me that Gadd never intended to anonymyse them very much (especially Martha). There are ways to preserve the emotional truth of a story and at the same time fictionalise it more, and this is... not that.

However the whole thing is so twisted. Various people who may or may not be "Martha" or "Darrien" are now being stalked and harassed by fans of a show about stalking and abuse. This is different from a regular person outing a rapist in their circle or local area. It's a real-life episode of "Black Mirror".

Also... Gadd is playing himself, engaging with what sounds like a very thinly veiled version of his stalker, there is a scene where he fantasises about having sex with her, there is a scene where he listens to her complimentary words for emotional comfort, and this is aired globally and available for her to see. Is this not kind of... baiting the stalker to become obsessed with him again? And how messed up is it that he now owes his fame and livelihood, and the realisation of his dreams, to her very existence, her words, her actions etc. and she knows it?

RainbowZebraWarrior · 24/04/2024 16:44

Yes, the while thing is so twisted.

I can't begin to imagine the mindset of wanting to act out, in person, some pretty sick abuse. That was already an uncomfortable and odd thing for me when I was watching it. Not the actual story, but RG himself and his reenactment of some awful and often torturous abuse.

Cathartic? Possibly. But not at all healthy.

Wanting to make something powerful? Successful? Shocking? Yes. Also likely. Pure revenge? Yes, also now seems possible.

But it also brings to mind (for me) the sort of situations whereby some people want to involve others in their fetish, fantasy or other odd behaviour. Similarly, trauma dumping without advance warning on the audience for the first time as has been said. I'd have been very uncomfortable being party to that without warning or consent.

Being applauded for that could be rather addictive, I'd say. Especially in a person who's been subject to abuse and is desperate for validation. It seems to have borne a need for further figurative self flagellation. So called 'Traumedy'

It makes me wonder; if a person was so inclined, they would write a screenplay of a depraved fantasy, star in it themselves, and act it all out publicly as it were. Involving other actors, TV crew and ultimately the viewing public. I'm not saying that's what's happened here, but there's a danger of it.

I also wonder if there were intimacy coaches on the show. Big things have been made of them lately on shows like Sex Education for example. And rightly so. Being involved in the filming of abuse and rape scenes must be quite harrowing.

FloorWipes · 24/04/2024 17:27

But it also brings to mind (for me) the sort of situations whereby some people want to involve others in their fetish, fantasy or other odd behaviour.

Agree with all your thoughts but especially this.

BellaBaxter · 24/04/2024 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Wow

radishesare · 24/04/2024 18:09

RainbowZebraWarrior · 24/04/2024 16:44

Yes, the while thing is so twisted.

I can't begin to imagine the mindset of wanting to act out, in person, some pretty sick abuse. That was already an uncomfortable and odd thing for me when I was watching it. Not the actual story, but RG himself and his reenactment of some awful and often torturous abuse.

Cathartic? Possibly. But not at all healthy.

Wanting to make something powerful? Successful? Shocking? Yes. Also likely. Pure revenge? Yes, also now seems possible.

But it also brings to mind (for me) the sort of situations whereby some people want to involve others in their fetish, fantasy or other odd behaviour. Similarly, trauma dumping without advance warning on the audience for the first time as has been said. I'd have been very uncomfortable being party to that without warning or consent.

Being applauded for that could be rather addictive, I'd say. Especially in a person who's been subject to abuse and is desperate for validation. It seems to have borne a need for further figurative self flagellation. So called 'Traumedy'

It makes me wonder; if a person was so inclined, they would write a screenplay of a depraved fantasy, star in it themselves, and act it all out publicly as it were. Involving other actors, TV crew and ultimately the viewing public. I'm not saying that's what's happened here, but there's a danger of it.

I also wonder if there were intimacy coaches on the show. Big things have been made of them lately on shows like Sex Education for example. And rightly so. Being involved in the filming of abuse and rape scenes must be quite harrowing.

I've been trying to formulate my thoughts on this show and struggling, but this post sums it up for me, thank you!

ThePure · 24/04/2024 18:38

I just don't know why it actually needed to be publicised that it is based on his own true story.

I appreciated the show. It was thought provoking and it felt a very real nuanced portrayal of trauma to me I am glad he wrote it but I would have enjoyed it more not knowing it was his true story or with him acting himself in it.

I mean all powerful writing is usually from personal experience so why not do what most writers do and tell the emotional truth through your characters without claiming they are you. Then obfuscate a bit when people ask you.

The fact he needed to claim it personally so obviously and publicly is what has led to all the difficulties for other people (some innocent and some not) being 'outed' and also leads to the creepy sense that we are all involved in his therapy.

AmaryllisChorus · 25/04/2024 12:59

fatphalange · 23/04/2024 17:29

It struck me how godawful the 'comedy' was. Then I read later that he is apparently award winning and quite good.
Depicting the comedy as soooo bad in the series seems like yet another self harm behaviour. Or maybe he's a masochist...or both.

I saw him years ago - before any of this abuse occurred afaik, in a comedy club that gave short spots to newcomers. He was by far the worst comedian there. Weird, uncomfortable, completely unfunny. I almost spoke to him afterwards, to ask what he thought a joke was, because he was just being either really offensive or obscure and he was so ill at ease on stage, he seemed to have no sense of his audience at all. Of all the stand ups on that night, I thought he was the least likely to make it. It's pretty impressive that despite the awful traumas he's been through since, he actually stuck with it and developed award-winning material. But that dire Edinburgh pub gig in episode 4 was an improvement on the gig I saw.

BlackFriYay · 25/04/2024 20:49

The woman everybody suspected of being Martha has written a long post on Facebook basically confirming she's the right one.

She's saying he asked her out years ago and she rejected him so he stalked her.

SuperTeddd · 25/04/2024 21:47

BlackFriYay · 25/04/2024 20:49

The woman everybody suspected of being Martha has written a long post on Facebook basically confirming she's the right one.

She's saying he asked her out years ago and she rejected him so he stalked her.

From what she is saying - and there are a few updates from her - it sounds like she has spoken to the press.

She is also saying things about his father now, it does seem to have opened a while can of worms.

SapphosRock · 25/04/2024 22:11

Ironic that hundreds of people are now stalking her on Facebook.

leopardsnowleopard · 25/04/2024 22:13

9 mins ago she said 'he's got HIV'

BlackFriYay · 25/04/2024 22:21

She's on one now, she isn't sleeping tonight.

Richard posted a picture of Heather Trott and a bunch of laughing faces onto his IG story an hour ago.

The bear has been poked.

SapphosRock · 25/04/2024 22:31

Back to the series. Like others I found episode 4 really tough. I really felt for Donny when the policeman he was speaking to about Martha had a strong resemblance to Darrius.

Itsnamechange · 25/04/2024 22:38

I very much doubt Richard Gadd named his character after Donald Dewar, Scotland’s first First Minister. It’s also not clear the woman in question reached the threshold of stalking with Donald Dewar, or that police were involved, there’s a brief mention in one article that she harassed him.
She did however stalk the wife of another MP who has a disabled son. That victim was a barrister who employed her as a trainee solicitor- apparently for 3 days -so yes “Martha” really wanted to be a lawyer. It’s obviously the right person.

Itsnamechange · 25/04/2024 22:43

ThePure · 24/04/2024 18:38

I just don't know why it actually needed to be publicised that it is based on his own true story.

I appreciated the show. It was thought provoking and it felt a very real nuanced portrayal of trauma to me I am glad he wrote it but I would have enjoyed it more not knowing it was his true story or with him acting himself in it.

I mean all powerful writing is usually from personal experience so why not do what most writers do and tell the emotional truth through your characters without claiming they are you. Then obfuscate a bit when people ask you.

The fact he needed to claim it personally so obviously and publicly is what has led to all the difficulties for other people (some innocent and some not) being 'outed' and also leads to the creepy sense that we are all involved in his therapy.

Probably because he’s spoken about this for years. The breakdown on stage actually happened, then he wrote a stage show. He’s an advocate for a charity that supports male victims of sexual abuse. The fact that this is his story is well known and honestly why shouldn’t he tell it?

StarsHideYourFir3s · 26/04/2024 09:31

AmaryllisChorus · 25/04/2024 12:59

I saw him years ago - before any of this abuse occurred afaik, in a comedy club that gave short spots to newcomers. He was by far the worst comedian there. Weird, uncomfortable, completely unfunny. I almost spoke to him afterwards, to ask what he thought a joke was, because he was just being either really offensive or obscure and he was so ill at ease on stage, he seemed to have no sense of his audience at all. Of all the stand ups on that night, I thought he was the least likely to make it. It's pretty impressive that despite the awful traumas he's been through since, he actually stuck with it and developed award-winning material. But that dire Edinburgh pub gig in episode 4 was an improvement on the gig I saw.

Interesting that you point out he wasn't comfortable on stage - even watching him onscreen made me physically tense as he was so awkward. I was like SURELY you wouldn't do it in the first place if you clearly hate being onstage, but then you would workshop your stuff endlessly instead of taking something that you know will die on its arse in front of an audience. I feel like he's a masochist who seeks negative feedback as it reinforces his poor view of himself (which does not mean I think he was "asking for" any of the shit from either his stalker or abuser). He needs a lot of therapy. And a lot more if he already has had therapy. I want him to find some kind of peace.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 26/04/2024 09:54

BlackFriYay · 25/04/2024 22:21

She's on one now, she isn't sleeping tonight.

Richard posted a picture of Heather Trott and a bunch of laughing faces onto his IG story an hour ago.

The bear has been poked.

That seems like a childish thing to do. I notice it's been removed now. Wonder if he thought better of it, or was advised to take it down.

There was talk about a possible second series last week. Can't see that happening now after the mess it's created.

Janiie · 26/04/2024 10:03

Such a compelling but strange series. Why is he playing himself when in some scenes he's supposed to be in his 20s. He looks about 50.

The actress playing Martha is absolutely brilliant.

Only up to ep 4 but as others have said his 'comedy' is absolute crap. Why oh why would he keep going back to the bloke's flat for drugs, he knew he was getting groped which inevitably sadly led to rape. We knew what Darrien was doing why did he pretend it was all a nasty shock?

Why did Keeley move out of her own Mother's house?

It is well made, compelling and disturbing in equal measure. Poor Teri getting horrifically assaulted and no one in the pub called the police.

I'll stick with it but Donnie's self indulgent wide eyed poor me stare is starting to grate so I hope we see a bit of self awareness and light bulb moment that he needs to get his arse in gear a bit.

I think he'll regret making this.

Itsnamechange · 26/04/2024 16:53

Janiie · 26/04/2024 10:03

Such a compelling but strange series. Why is he playing himself when in some scenes he's supposed to be in his 20s. He looks about 50.

The actress playing Martha is absolutely brilliant.

Only up to ep 4 but as others have said his 'comedy' is absolute crap. Why oh why would he keep going back to the bloke's flat for drugs, he knew he was getting groped which inevitably sadly led to rape. We knew what Darrien was doing why did he pretend it was all a nasty shock?

Why did Keeley move out of her own Mother's house?

It is well made, compelling and disturbing in equal measure. Poor Teri getting horrifically assaulted and no one in the pub called the police.

I'll stick with it but Donnie's self indulgent wide eyed poor me stare is starting to grate so I hope we see a bit of self awareness and light bulb moment that he needs to get his arse in gear a bit.

I think he'll regret making this.

I doubt he’ll regret making it. It’s an enormous critical success.

Janiie · 26/04/2024 18:45

Itsnamechange · 26/04/2024 16:53

I doubt he’ll regret making it. It’s an enormous critical success.

At what price? I bet his mental health will take a battering having relived his version of events plus what about an apparently seriously mentally ill woman's wellbeing? She is clearly finding it all difficult going by sm comments. Then people speculating on who this Derrien creep is? It's just all so crass and inappropriate to attempt to make a black comedy about real people and a one sided disturbing retelling of things that happened. I haven't watched it all so no idea if Martha does get arrested and charged.

Either write a documentary with identifiable people and facts or write fiction and change all facts, identities etc.

Still think it's v weird that he stars as himself.