Anyone watched the shamina begum documentary on bbc 2 ?

[hellobethyname]

Just watching it now

I've changed my mind . She was a child , groomed , no idea what she was getting into .

I don't think we should demonise one child forever . There are much bigger threats out there that people don't even realise.

I have watched the documentary but haven't listened to the podcasts. I agree with you that this journalist and the way it was handled made me very angry - and like you, ashamed. I remember it first being aired and it made me angry then, but rewatching it, it seemed even worse.

Yes she doesn't show much emotion, probably as you say learned behaviour and trauma, but some people just don't. I don't - didn't shed a tear at my parents' funerals and I'm sure many people dismissed me as a cold fish.

She is also having to tread a very fine line about what she says/admits to and how she reacts because of where she is.

I dare say she was more involved in things than she admits but, she was a child of Britain, she was brought up here, she was radicalised here. We should deal with her here.

She's a manipulative liar who shouldn't be trusted for a second IMO - she's completely changed herself from her first interview where she was vile, boasting about the things she'd been involved in - when she realised that didn't get her what she wanted she started wearing western clothes and changing her tune.

This. Selfish and narcissistic.

And I think she would still remain a terrorist threat. We should keep her out.

I'm currently watching this. She was a child who was groomed in to believing the words of ISIS. I work in a field where I often see children groomed or adults who were groomed as children. Mothers who as adults genuinely believe their partners abusing their kids is for good reason and they have genuine belief that there is nothing wrong with it as they've been groomed to think that way. We accept children are groomed by gangs, cults and predators. What's left are damaged adults. If as society we can have sympathy for some of the most heinous of behaviour, how is this any different from those sorts of things? I'm not sure whether she would ever be able to be rehabilitated in to normal life but I do think she has the right to return & securely managed in the u.k.

But being selfish and narcissistic doesn't mean she wasn't groomed and doesn't mean she's entitled to less justice than if she was warm and friendly.

Quite. I find her deeply unpleasant. But it was on the UK's watch that, as a child, she was groomed and trafficked. This country should not shirk its responsibility for her.

If she was white you would all feel differently.

I wouldn't. Her behaviour - her obsession with killing and death is extremely disturbing. I would always regard her as a danger. I feel sorry for the poor babies she lost, but not for her.

SHe's a dangerous and unpleasant young woman.

You would. You see her as lesser because she is not white.

If she did come back to the Uk she wouldn’t go to prison because we are to soft! She would probably be released or serve a pathetically short term with compassionate grounds or something! There is a reason the government is so reluctant to have her back, They obviously still view her as a threat and they have more professional knowledge and insight than Joe Public as to why she is still seen as a threat.

Not true. I felt the same about the women that enabled the IRA back in the 70’s. Although even though they did disgusting things there was some tangible ideology.
Shamina was talking about being finding paradise in the next life as her motivation. An entirely selfish reasons then.

Totally agree @Arrrrrrragghhh

I believe she was radicalised, groomed, and went with an idealistic view of what would happen. She was child at the time, and agree, we don't blame the victims of sexual grooming, but these kids are fair game. I also do believe that race and colour play into it, and that if she were blonde and blue eyed, would have been allowed back into the country, with whatever punishment was decided. I'm not saying she had no idea of what she was signing up for, but she was a kid, and I do think that should have been taken into account.

Yet when a white 15 year old is groomed things are different. It might not be your opinion but basically it is the opinion of British authorities.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63736944

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55981119

If ISIS hadn’t lost would she be coming back? They went out there to build a Islamic caliphate that wages Jihad on the non-believers of the world in the most brutal ways. It was the end days. Oops that didn’t work, and many lives were lost and soldiers died and Yazidi girls raped and killed, so many lives totally devastated. But she was a child everyone screams.

That her ‘innocence’ as a child is more sacred than the evil she committed directly and indirectly is becoming a western joke!

She represents what would happen to anyone else who thinks having a little holiday Jihad with ISIS and come back to the country you waged war on. Can you imagine what kind of message this sends to anyone considering joining radical gangs if she’s allowed back.
Once back there are too many loopholes, problem is she’ll be tried as a child and not get the sentence she deserves.

Every time they show SB, they should also show ISIS victims so we aren’t being emotionally manipulated from one side only. Or the cages where people were burnt.

Other than travelling to ISIS territory and joining a terrorist society, what evidence is there that she has committed further crimes? Let's be clear about this. First-hand eyewitness testimony generally seems to back up that she didn't do much.

@sashh I know personally of a mixed child student that Prevent came to work with because they were becoming radicalised.

Your examples are right wing extremists. By the nature of the organisation they will be white. If there is a racist element to terrorism surely the government would be less bothered by neo nazi ideology.

I think as a 15yr old she thought she was going on a big adventure. It’s not unusual for kids to fantasise about being part of something big and exciting, being accepted as a valued member of something. I don’t think she was necessarily radicalised in the sense that she’s a devout believer. I imagine for many of the kids who travelled to Syria it was more political than religious, some of them had very little religious knowledge but had notions of “muslim lands, the umma” whilst often not really having received any religious instruction. It speaks to a sense of wanting to be a part of a bigger whole.

It’s difficult because I don’t believe she’s repentant and I don’t think she feels any real remorse towards the victims of Isis but I also think that at 15 you aren’t fully formed and being in that environment must impact your sense of decency, empathy, what right etc. But she’s a British citizen, I don’t particularly want her back, even though she went as a child she would be coming back as a woman. BUT she’s a British citizen and you can’t dump your problems on other nations.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Radicalized children should be treated the same way, punished if necessary.

I agree. I was shouting at the TV at that point. I was disgusted by some of the journalists who interviewed her just after she had had the third baby. She was probably still bleeding, exhausted, still a teenager who had already lost two children, and she was doing the interviews in the hope of saving her last baby. They exploited it for drama and clicks. She should be brought back and tried according to the criminal justice system here, sentenced if found appropriate then hopefully supported and rehabilitated. That would be the actions of a truly civilised country, but clearly we are not.

Yes, that was a bit shit. Letting her see that letter for the first time on camera

I think we should bring her back and she should face the music in the UK, and be carefully monitored for the rest of her life.
Unfortunately she'd probably also need 24 hour protection (at tax payers expense) to stop fanatics targeting her.

No.

I see her as dangerous because even if she was initially groomed (and nothing suggests that she was) she is now a radicalised and dangerous individual.

There is something in her manner that makes me cold she said people should feel sympathy for her she tried to justify Manchester I certainly wouldn't have if I wanted to "come home"

although I do feel during one of her interviews that the baby was being held by someone else for compliance that seemed weird to me

Honestly I think if she hadn't been captured she would still be there willingly and they are discarding her now she is no longer useful and cannot get back here

I think she is suffering from some type of ptsd. She did not cry not even once though you could see the sadness in her eyes when talking about her children.