Killing Eve S4 - Discussion thread (with spoilers)

[NurseButtercup]

The first episode will air on 28th February. I think this is the last season. I'm going to state up front this thread will contain spoilers.

My plan is to watch the last episode of season 3 to refresh my memory.

Please join in....

spoiler
Nah, despite the deep dive above, still do not see how Carolyn needed to give mi6 Villanelle.
Firstly, they could have had her at least twice in 4 seasons, most noticeably when she was banged up. Secondly, they would have kept her as an asset.
Makes no sense to me.
Also, having Konstantin kill Kenny - I would rather he had had another face-off in the finale with Carolyn and admitted it directly, only to be told he had slain his own son. Then set himself up with the pizza cutter or whatever in the room (as a reviewer said an assisted by Pam murder-suicide) knowing that Carolyn would set Pam on him.

I liked much of the last two episodes, but the inconsistencies, the 11 being dispatched inanely, the last two minutes....nope.
Not sure Eve screaming survival and V being self-sacrificing/off to the light, was that clear either, certainly some reviewers wanted more.

www.denofgeek.com/tv/killing-eve-series-finale-betrayal/
this reviewer

ew.com/tv/killing-eve-producer-eve-villanelle-fates-series-finale/
interview with EP again

Okay, am done now
It's not a show that's about the Twelve. It's not about who the big evil is that's controlling the world
Would be fine, had they not made such a big deal of their identity this series.
Reading through that interview, feels like she is digging out the hole they made for themselves and keeps digging.

I am going now, honest guv (have just been waiting for you all to finish!)
but a comment btl in the interview above made me think - had there been a flashback to the Kenny roof scene with Konstantin talking him down/recruiting to the 12 but he did step off and fall...because he saw Villanelle moving towards him.
That would have been more satisfying and made Carolyn's decision and the whole death scene more reconcilable.

I admit I am very confused ...

I did think maybe Constantine wrote in the letter that he killed Kenny because he told Pam to tell her he always loved her .. he could of written that ... and where eve said she had always known ( Carolyn )

Why do that to V at the end though , she had effectively done Carolyn's dirty work and wiped them all out for her

Much more confused me but I'll look more of a fool typing it up 😬

Well, I'm deeply disappointed with S4. I couldn't tell why Eve didn't like Villanelle in certain episodes then Villanelle was annoyed at Eve, then they both liked each other again. Considering their relationship is central to the story, we were really left in the dark on that point.

I completely lost track of who was or wasn't in the Twelve and I stopped caring. The whole of this series was a total shambles, especially compared to the genius of the earlier ones.

What was the point of introducing Pam so late in the storyline? How come someone took a hit out on Carolyn then Carolyn took a hit out on Villanelle? I think I'm just going to pretend Killing Eve ended on the bridge at the end of series 3 and fill in the blanks myself.

I feel irrationally annoyed that people messed with my favourite programme and made it crappy.

On the upside, Cameo's Candy is and always has been a killer tune!

@BadHairDayExpert I loved the den of geek review

Yes candy is always iconic !!!🙌

I did like Pam. In fairness, you could say the same for Rhiann. Have a huge soft spot for Alexandra Roach so gutted when she was killed off so quickly.
I agree that the gap between the bridge, Eve going cold turkey and then seemingly hating Villanelle, was disjointed. Helene took the hit on Carolyn iirc but it was not really explained why she was killing all and sundry without anyone stopping her.

It's like they decided just to kill everyone because it was easier and no one cared. I certainly didn't by the end. That first series was just brilliant. This was just meh. I was hoping Anton Lesser was going to pep up the last episode but that just seemed to be a vanity cameo - what a waste.

Who killed kenny was it villanelle ?? Confused

Konstantin
He lied at the end of series 3 so Carolyn did not shoot him and made up the Kenny stepping backwards mishap.
He then confessed all in a letter.
With the added kicker of sorry, did love you.

That said, the exec producer double-backed and said it was all up in the air and although ultimately Konstantin was probably responsible for his death, who knows?

That made me fume. Who knows? Who fucking knows?!
YOU - YOU, THE EXEC PRODUCER; YOU SHOULD KNOW
Seriously though - to spend a whole series with Kenny's death as the motive for Carolyn to further investigate/unveil/dismantle the 12...only for it to be, ah well, you secretly knew it was Konstantin all along, is lazy writing.
Fiona Shaw said it was Konstantin and that was what the letter revealed.

No bloody clue what was going on. Really disappointed in the ending. Hmmmph.

Well that was a damp squib!!!

Really thisfinal episode and this season were just confusing and genuinely just didnt make sense.

Season 1 was superb and Season 2 was pretty good.

S3 was ok but this was simply disappointing.

And what happened to Konstsntin's daughter? Helene freed her but then what?
Same question for Carolyn's daughter.
And what about the investigative journalism bureau where Kenny worked. They were working with Eve to discover who the 12 were but randomly she's changed jobs and we don't hear about them again.

And Niko - where was he? I was expecting a reconciliation.

So many loose ends

I have not read the books so don't know if this is true to it but a let down IMO.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who wasn’t sure what was going on. I hate when shows do this. If you have to Google what the hell the ending meant, then that’s not a great ending. A lot of things bugged me about this season. It almost seemed like a parody of the show with some really trite storylines and the loud grating music. As always, it was beautifully shot but overall I just wanted to get to the end.

Incredibly disappointing.

I agree that if Villanelle had been the one who Kenny then it would make sense that Carolyn arranged her killing at the end, but not if it was Konstantin.

It felt like the writer thought - 'oh, I'm bored with it all now. I'm just going to kill a load of them off'

I struggle with the fact that all the writers in the room and that is the best they could come up with. I am not a rabid Villaneve shipping person but not sure why they would kill off V in the way they did, with so many invested. Have read all about the bury the gay trope the last couple of days.
As I said upthread, had there been a Villanelle flashback and she was not in Spain after all, then I could have forgiven the hit. As it was, no real motive as mi6 were not bothered about V in the first place.
Had there been a Kaiser Sose reveal that Carolyn was and had always been covert head of all the 12 cells and everything we had seen was a lie, with perhaps the Kenny thing a failed coup attempt to bring her down, I would have eyerolled but gone with it.
As it is, the ending has offended many lesbian viewers championing the show, has made no real sense across the 4 series plot-wise and left most wondering what the writer was on.

Also all the island stuff was completely pointless

There was a lot of filler. Each series as a standalone fair enough.
But if you know it is the final series then odd choices were made.
I think they needed invested fans in the writers' room to help with the script. e.g. someone on reddit suggested Irina should have been the sniper. Small details like that.

As to the larger unanswerables, the writer said in an interview with Salon...

*I think part of the joy of the show is some of the ambiguity, so we didn't want to answer every question. I also think we had to choose what were the important questions to answer. And it felt like a focus on the Eve-Villanelle relationship was perhaps more important than finally revealing exactly who The Twelve are.

Also, in terms of the Carolyn and the who killed Kenny question, for me what feels important is the revelation that it doesn't really matter to Carolyn who killed Kenny. It matters that she has an excuse to behave in the way that she wants to behave. It felt appropriate not to come down definitively on that, because, really, the story point is: this is a woman who just needs a reason to behave like this rather than needs to understand that, and then she'll rest. She'll never rest.*

Cop outs.
It just feels like they could not write themselves out of the corner they were in so came up with excuses not to.

I did feel the same way about Life on mars/Ashes to Ashes and Lost though and the Affair which should have finished after series 2.
If you lose the arc or extend a show because of its success, and you are not adapting material to the letter, or ambiguity is part of the narrative then you need someone who knows when and how it is going to end from the off because otherwise you are winging it.
Similarly, whatever you are going with needs to still apply after events unfold how I met your mother looking at you there
I thought with this, it was going to be like Breaking Bad* and Eve's character arc would go the way of Wilson Wilson in Utopia. She would end up being the new assassin or in the 12.
*There were elements of that, Eve becoming more like V whilst V was trying to redeem herself.
But posing questions about who killed Kenny and making such a deal of the 12 then 'not wanting to' answer these questions and at the same time, having V dispatch everyone in seconds feels hollow. What is it, deus ex machina, when everything is resolved just like that, and yet nothing was.

I will get over it!
(I was moaning halfway through series 4 that I did not know who was doing what and why, but then it got better so I stuck with it. But Helene, killing everyone in sight but invited to the 12 meetings also makes no sense, none of it stands up to scrutiny at all).

the Affair which should have finished after series 2.

Don’t get me started! Season one was great, really cleverly done. Then OK, second season was good to tie up loose ends and see a little more of the characters. Then it just falls off a cliff in terms of quality. So many shows seem to follow that pattern.

I’m glad to know it was a good decision not to go beyond series 1 of The Affair!

I know she’s my username but I did love Carolyn in the last episode. The linen bit and then “If I say no, will that deter you?” to Hugo
Her self-possession would be useful sometimes (in small doses!).

Other than that I am totally confused.

Watched through to the end out of necessity than anything else. This was a really weak season, it just seemed to be dragged out and nowhere for the story to go.
It wasn’t clear at all as to why Carolyn killed Eve.
Totally nonsensical.

Totally confused at the end. Also, do we know who shot V - obviously ordered by Carolyn, but should we know who pulled the trigger?