Caroline Flack: her life and death

[Rollergirl11]

Starting a thread in readiness for 9pm.

Thanks @Rollergirl11

Brieminewine, Hitting someone over the head with a lampshade is not fiery, it is violent. This is what is meant by minimising. (Would you say that if a man smashed a lampshade over the head of a woman?)

If the programme was genuinely intended to explore CF's issues, then it should have explored this issue: her aggression towards partners. As it is, it is a whitewash.

Maybe Lewis sustained a cut to head after Caroline came home in a presumed good mood after seeing her friends and upon finding her boyfriend texting other women she said ok enough, please get your stuff and leave my house and oh yeah I'll have that 25k back I gave you to pay off your debts, thank you.

Upon this and realising his cash cow was over and with no intention to pay her back he flipped and went for her??

Maybe the lamp whack was to defend her self? Did he subject her to verbal abuse, did he know which buttons to press to upset her and break her down?

We will never know!

But we do know there was a fight which got out of hand, rightly or wrongly it happens between some couples, To call her a serial abuser leaves a bad taste in my mouth. she didn't set out to hurt him neither did she kill him, she killed herself.

Badadbing she abused at least one previous partner and had him sign an NDA afterwards.

It's very sad to me that Caroline took her own life and that she didn't get the help she needed for her her MH issues but it's very wrong to minimise her actions. She was abusive.

Self harming in front of a partner during an argument is also abusive.

Upon this and realising his cash cow was over and with no intention to pay her back he flipped and went for her??

Maybe the lamp whack was to defend her self? Did he subject her to verbal abuse, did he know which buttons to press to upset her and break her down?

We will never know!

Actually Caroline herself told the police that he was asleep when she hit him. It's all out there if you care to look.

Andrea You're right. The news stories based on the police who attended the scene said that she went through his phone while he was asleep, found messages to another woman and then attacked him while he was still sleeping by hitting him over the head with a lamp.

Utterly indefensible.

I also thought it was glaringly obvious that she had BPD, whether she knew that and didn't share it with her family we'll never know. What is sad is that she seemed really ashamed of her self harming behaviour and I wonder if that stopped her from seeking help.
I do think her behaviour towards her partners was massively minimised in a way that would never have happened if the sexes were reversed but given this program was from the perspective of her family it was understandable.
It still doesn't make what she did excusable but is very sad all round.

I wonder if the (overwhelmingly positive & sympathetic) tone of media coverage would be the same of a male celebrity who committed suicide while awaiting trial for an alleged offence of assault by battery on his partner?

I think we all know the answer to that.

* she abused at least one previous partner and had him sign an NDA afterwards*

Do you absolutely know that for a fact or is that just speculation? Because Andrew Brady has entirely changed his narrative on that score these days....

I mean about the abuse, not the NDA.

@Badadabing

Maybe Lewis sustained a cut to head after Caroline came home in a presumed good mood after seeing her friends and upon finding her boyfriend texting other women she said ok enough, please get your stuff and leave my house and oh yeah I'll have that 25k back I gave you to pay off your debts, thank you.

Upon this and realising his cash cow was over and with no intention to pay her back he flipped and went for her??

Maybe the lamp whack was to defend her self? Did he subject her to verbal abuse, did he know which buttons to press to upset her and break her down?

We will never know!

But we do know there was a fight which got out of hand, rightly or wrongly it happens between some couples, To call her a serial abuser leaves a bad taste in my mouth. she didn't set out to hurt him neither did she kill him, she killed herself.

shockng this really is

he was asleep when she hit him-it happens between couples really-my dh and i have never laid a hand on each other

@Badadabing she said he was asleep when she hit him, and that is what the stores based on police attendance said also. You are completely making up stories, based on no evidence including her own. Andrew Brady showed his NDA when removing his prior tweet.

Honestly this is pretty poor victim blaming and excuses. Any death from suicide is very sad, including those of abusers. Doesn't mean it is in fact being kind to minimise abuse.

PlayJaJa, I didn't think you were underplaying her responsibility. Yes, BPD is what leapt out at me too. The abandonment issues, the extreme yo-yo-ing of mood, the inconsolability after break-ups, the frequent self-harming. I quietly backed off from a friendship with someone very like this. When she was accepting help, taking medication and also, like you say, responsibility, she seemed to just about manage with the trials of everyday life but then she decided that all medication was rubbish, and all talking therapy, all professional interventions. She was hurting a lot of people (not least her own children) and leaving a trail of absolute chaos and had apparently absolutely no remorse about it. As seems typical with such folk, she has acquired quite a few enablers over the years, people who adore her and flatter her. No doubt they say to themselves they are "being kind" but actually, they're not.

@TurquoiseLemur

PlayJaJa, I didn't think you were underplaying her responsibility. Yes, BPD is what leapt out at me too. The abandonment issues, the extreme yo-yo-ing of mood, the inconsolability after break-ups, the frequent self-harming. I quietly backed off from a friendship with someone very like this. When she was accepting help, taking medication and also, like you say, responsibility, she seemed to just about manage with the trials of everyday life but then she decided that all medication was rubbish, and all talking therapy, all professional interventions. She was hurting a lot of people (not least her own children) and leaving a trail of absolute chaos and had apparently absolutely no remorse about it. As seems typical with such folk, she has acquired quite a few enablers over the years, people who adore her and flatter her. No doubt they say to themselves they are "being kind" but actually, they're not.

I wish I’d read something like that a few years ago.

I am sorry she killed herself but am also uncomfortable 're the abuse but also she was happy to make money out of love island where I think 2 ex contestants had already killed themselves due to media. Smacks of happy to dish it and make money.

@AndreaMarteau

Upon this and realising his cash cow was over and with no intention to pay her back he flipped and went for her??

Maybe the lamp whack was to defend her self? Did he subject her to verbal abuse, did he know which buttons to press to upset her and break her down?

We will never know!

Actually Caroline herself told the police that he was asleep when she hit him. It's all out there if you care to look.

I didn't know this, I didn't follow the story at the time or any of her TV shows. I'm not a fan trying to justify her actions. I only watched because it was mentioned on here.

As I said before violence isn't the answer or acceptable. But people can be pushed to breaking point, even more so with MH issues, things snap inside and at all becomes very sad and desperate.

Without knowing the details of the night or back ground to her life what I saw last night was a fragile female (who was bullied online and in hindsight not really cut out for fame and everything it entails) who never received the much needed MH support from her teenager years onwards.

What happened was wrong but I still don't think she was an abuser in the term that she actively took joy in her actions, she didn't isolate partners, gas light them or steal, lie or cheat on them? (That I know of ) In fact none of the 'normal' associated abuser tactics were mentioned?

It was a horrible fight, yes it was wrong and she should have faced police questions etc but she should not have been hailed by the press as an prolific abuser of men.

Self harm in front of some can be abuse but in absence of all the other control behaviour pattens associated with abuse it can also be a desperate cry for help.

FIY I only knew that she had paid off his debts as I read in a trashy mag or the like that his new GF had also given him a large amount of money and I thought it was a bit

I'm not even sure the media can be entirely blamed. She tried several times before to take her own life when relationship crumbled, that was her trigger point. This one crumbled spectacularly.

Now the media are vultures, there's no denying it. But I don't think this where the blame totally lies in this case.

@TurquoiseLemur

Brieminewine, Hitting someone over the head with a lampshade is not fiery, it is violent. This is what is meant by minimising. (Would you say that if a man smashed a lampshade over the head of a woman?)

If the programme was genuinely intended to explore CF's issues, then it should have explored this issue: her aggression towards partners. As it is, it is a whitewash.

Did she though? Or did she just admit it all to get it all wrapped up as she was terrified of further negative press? The tiny cut on his head doesn’t look like a lamp has been smashed over his head to me. He was treated at the scene and deemed not to require hospital treatment, again not indicative of blunt trauma. The blood was all hers as she self harmed to the point of needing plastic surgery. He didn’t support the charges, she hasn’t any previous convictions for domestic abuse so it think it’s unfair to paint her as abusive based on one episode. And let’s be real, who wouldn’t kick off at finding their partner who they do everything for messaging another woman after a night out?!

@Onwardsandupwardswego I am so glad you said this, the hypocrisy relative to the whole CF situation was unbelievable.

Gabsalot

Pleased to say mine neither but sadly I had an ex who would enjoy mentally and physically pushing me until I could take no more.

It does happen and some people know how to push all the buttons to get the worst out of someone - which was the point I was trying to make!

I didn't know until now she hit him when he was asleep!

I was simply going off the TV show.

Jesus I wish I hadn't bothered with any of this.

And like just like an airplane I'm going to announce my departure

Its very sad, a shame she took her life and so sad for her family and friends left behind.You can't help wonder if it could have been a turning point in facing up to her demons.

Brieminewine, So CF "kicking off" was entirely justified, was it? I don't care that she gave him lots of money, paid the mortgage, etc, this was still abusive behaviour. Which you are minimising.

"I pay the mortgage and give you everything, I can treat you how I like" is the attitude of many, many abusers, the majority of them men. Why is it okay as an attitude just because it comes from a woman?

The CPS do not prosecute every case, they weigh them up carefully.

Lots of people hurt by DV don't support the charges, they are afraid of an escalation of abuse.

Prompted by this thread, I watched the programme earlier. There was a lot more to Caroline than the public ever saw, that was evident from what her mother and sister, friends and colleagues said. They all spoke very well - 'heartfelt' is the word to describe.

She was quite pretty too, I'd never seen her in that way before.

I only ever saw her presenting the X-factor with Olly and didn't like her, she struck me as OTT and rather vulgar; though a Strictly fan I honestly don't remember her on that even though she won. Then she went on that dreadful 'Love Island' thing which I only know about from what I've read.

A complex character and it is sad that she ended her life. I'm glad she had some good friendships.

1. We either accept or we don't that BPD is a mental illness

1. We either accept or we don't that BPD makes it harder to resist impulsivity and angry behaviour, or it doesn't (the psychiatric and legal professions may disagree on this one)

1. We either accept or we don't that having a mental illness is not the fault of the sufferer

There seems to be a strange combination of contradictory beliefs on Mumsnet that poor mental health is not the fault of the sufferer and yet at the same time the sufferer is wholly responsible for any detrimental behaviour that results directly from their illness.

Nor is it acknowledged that different patients can be affected to different degrees by the same mental health disorder and individual patients can respond differently to the same treatment.

And few people understand (unless you have direct experience of someone in your family with a serious mental illness as I do) that the very same symptoms that affect some individuals with PDs, make it very difficult for them to seek out, accept, and stick consistently to treatment plans.

RIP Caroline