claire verity part 2

[Lorayn]

Too many bloody posts on the other one, I cant post!!!

Sorry meant to say if you want to get a nanny job through an agency they will insist on you being police check. (sent that last post before I checked it).

I do think it is a myth that everyone was raised like this fifty years ago or whatever. I think only a certain proportion of people would be vulnerable/suggestible enough to agree to leaving a new born baby to cry for hours at a time,and to go against your incredibly strong instincts.
FWIW I only know one person who was Truby'd. He ended up in a children's home and he is completely fkd in the head tbh. no self control and prone to bouts of deep depression and terrible social skills. ended up having a nervous breakdown a few years ago.

My father and his older brother were raised very differently - my uncle was Truby Kinged and my Dad was Dr Spocked.

My uncle is a miserable, grumpy old sod

my dad is an annoyingly laid back serene person

Had to comment, just had to! Me and Dh watched in utter despair - main thing that worried us aside from poor babies emotional wellbeing, was what if the baby is actually ill ? Or been sick all over itself ? Or has a massive burp it can't get out ? You just leave it to scream until 4 hours have passed ? So so so stupid. If a baby cries at that age, you go to them, full stop. Every natural instinct in your body says go to them, pick them up, find out whats wrong. To ignore that is stupid and cruel. As for feeding every 4 hours, my ds would have fainted from hunger if I'd done that! I want to tell these silly women they are going to regret not talking to their babies as they feed them, kissing the, snuggling them up, they will never get that time back again. ok, rant over. You may all continue.

I was wondering that too chankins.

We've all sighed and rolled our eyes as we trudge upstairs AGAIN to see what the squawking is about when we KNOW they're fine and warm and comfy and full and... oh look... they've got their foot stuck in the cot bars, or their arm has wriggled inside their gro, or they've done a big poo and the nappy's leaked front and back... there are so many reasons they might be crying.

babyramone- i've read the Bowlby work. It broke my heart- and it was done on monkeys! it almost feels like a real baby Bowlby experiment doesn't it?

It was Harlow who did the monkeys, I think. Bowlby certainly did work on attachment but it was with real babies. IIRC, among many other studies, he studied babies in American orphanages and long term children's hospitals, and compared them with babies who had been placed in loving foster homes.

The one thing that got me laughing was when CV said very proudly that on her routine, all babies were sleeping through the night by the time they were 3 months old...and in her tone was implying that the use of any other method meant that this was unlikely..

So relating this to both my dds then, who were both breast fed, given as much love and attention as their 'manipulative' little selves demanded.....well they both slept through the night from 7 weeks old! Explain that one CV?!

WHOOPS!!Have dragged my books and it is Harlow who did the resus monkey. My special academic hat fell off when I kids.
I couldn't even remember Harlow but have written an essey on him
This thread is interesting to see how Truby King reared children have turned out. Must ask my MIL what she did. Would almost bet my DH's eldest Brother was.
I also wonder (not sure if mentioned) but you spend all your time ignoring your baby thus having your life, what happens when said baby toddler and can't be put upstairs or outside for hours at a time.

Fell off when I had kids. See have 1 brain cell

All this puts me in mind of that NSPCC advert. "Miles is a quiet baby. He has learnt that nobody comes, whether he cries or not". Wasn't that supposed to be abuse?

And HA, my 2nd and 3rd children slept through from a few weeks old- and they were cosleeping a la Continuum Concept. (The one we tried to put in a cot was a different story ).

I was reared Truby King style in the 60s, by parents brought up in the 30s and 40s.

My mum says it tore her up listening to me crying but my dad wouldn't let her go to me. He was very much in charge but he had to go to work, so I think it's a poor excuse. She is always trying to put my kids in the garden and it is the one thing my DH (who generally has no spine) will stand up to her over.

I digress.. As a Truby King baby I can tell you I have had depression since my teens which manifests itself in a Rage rather then sadness. Everything winds me up- especially driving. I have no tolerance of things people normally just dismiss as being slightly irritating. I find communicating face to face incredibly difficult and can't bear conflict. Most of my life I have been the outsider looking in.

Sadly my mother suffers from most of these issues too, probably because she was raised the same way. You'd think she'd have learnt from her own experience really, wouldn't you?

God help the poor babies suffering from this vile experiment.

God, Evenhope, I could have written most of your post

My mum once told me that she'd made herself sit outside my brother's door when he was tiny listening to him scream until he fell quiet, because otherwise he'd have 'won'. I can only assume she did the same with me and my sis. We all have our issues with temper, although funnily enough having dd has calmed me down immeasurably - although I had a bout of PND after she was born, the counselling I received for it helped me sort out loads of stuff.

All this didn't really click with me, though, til I had dd, and then I thought - wtf? How can anyone NOT want to go to their baby when it cries? It was like a physical pain inside me when dd called for me. I HAD to pick her up, to do otherwise would have crucified me...

(as it happened, dd was bf - until I was made to give it up at 10 weeks by stupid doctors telling me she'd be brain-damaged via jaundice if I didn't - and she slept through from 8 weeks - I was quite disappointed, I loved our sleepy night-time feeds in bed...)

This programme is horrible and I cannot believe C4 is playing russian roulette with those poor babies in this manner.

Completely agree harpsichordcarrier. I am very sceptical about everybody being raised ala Truby King in the 50's. For one thing, only the rich would have had enough bedrooms. I agree that children would have been left outside much more and to be honest, in the days when everybody had coal fires and possibly lead paint, this might have been a better option. However, I very much doubt that real mothers (as opposed to celebrities with 'maternity nurses') didn't cuddle their babies. Also, the whole Truby King thing seems to rely on formula, and high quality formula only really appeared in the 60's and 70's (Both DH's and my mum - "you were formula fed, BUT IT WAS SMA!!!!").

Significantly, none of the talking heads support the Truby King method. I would really love to know what Sheila Kitzinger thinks about countributing to this programme now it has been aired.

Leaving routines aside, nobody, but nobody apart from somebody very odd like CV would say that a baby doesn't need lots and lots of cuddles. I can't understand what C4 thought they were doing.

Ooh lovecat, my mum told my DD "you've won" when we got her out of the buggy on holiday after she'd been crying. It's crap isn't it

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lizarose, that is exactly what DP said re the nspcc advert.

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tictok- must brush up on my education!

Bowlby was the one who decreed that babies do best with a constant loving figure for 1st 6mths, wasn't he?

whats really horrid about these methods is that they twist perfectly legitimate (although not universally shared) views about child care
a) routines are important
b) sometimes some babies cry for a bit before going to sleep
c) some babies like to spend sometime by themselves and just be
d) lying outside in a pram well wrapped up watching the trees and the birds is probably a very nice thing for a baby to do.
e) you as a parent need your own space too

into something really really perverse