BBC 2 The Disappearance of Margaret Fleming

[informedisgood]

Anyone else watching? Thank goodness her "careres" were finally exposed.

[ParkheadParadise]

This was so sad.
Those two were evil bastards.
Really hope Margaret is with her Dad and at Peace

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thanks, Plop, I'll catch up with that podcast.

She sent her mother a typed letter, did she? Just like the ones she was supposed to have sent from the Regent Palace Hotel.

[theflushedzebra]

14 years doesn't seem that long a sentence? For killing a vulnerable girl, hiding her body, and claiming her benefits for 16 years.

I agree with the PPs that I have no doubt that they were guilty. And yes, the English teacher wad fab - the way she spoke up for her former pupil. Everyone that was interviewed seemed to have such fond memories of Margaret- except the two carers. Such a sad case.

[awaynboilyurheid]

chip did you not see my username it’s a well known Scottish insult ! Loved how the prosecution lawyer ran rings round Cairney.

[SarahBeeney]

I agree,14 year sentence is nothing!!

What vile people. That poor girl and what she must have gone through.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

I presume the sentence is to do with their age. If they serve it all, he will be 90 and she will be in her 70s.

[Meltedicicle]

Just finished watching this. Well done that English teacher! My daughter has learning difficulties and has literacy levels similar to Margaret. There’s no way she could write a letter that length let alone spell tricky words correctly. And the thought of someone with such a high level of needs as Avril claimed in that benefits form, becoming a gang master is so bloody ludicrous it’s untrue. Glad they were found guilty but wish Avril would tell the truth so proper closure can be reached. Eddie was clearly a complete knob but Avril’s friend seemed a nice lady so presumably Avril must have been ‘normal’ at some point and hopefully her conscience might kick in now she’s separated from Eddie.

[Inappropriatefemale]

How glaicket did Avril look?!

I think Eddie killed her but Avril knows and has kept her mouth shut as she is afraid of Eddie but she could’ve spoken up...

[lorettalemon]

I've just started watching episode 1, I don't remember having heard about this case before

[ParkheadParadise]

How glaicket did Avril look?!
VERY

lorettalemon
It was all over the news.

[lorettalemon]

I really don't know how I missed the information in the news at the time. It's terribly sad and even more so because they were the people her dad wanted to care for her after he died

[alexdgr8]

social services were at fault, and or police for not following up properly when she went to live with them, and her mother had concerns. also that they would not let her see speak to her almost step mother.
its not all down to dwp and checking on payments of benefits.
this was a case of a known vulnerable person. surely social services should have some oversight, esp where the carer parent had died.
and only 14 ys. if this had been 1960 both would have hanged. how does 14 yrs equate. it does not.

[NewYoiker]

@chipdips i watched it with my DH who is a barrister and he kept commenting on the wig

[chipdips]

@NewYoiker it was really wonky at times!

It was so interesting seeing the actual court room, I did think the bone evidence and the man saying he could smell burning flesh 8 years after she probably died was a bit of a stretch, I wonder if they would've been convicted if cairney hadn't taken the stand. Although the hotel letters were pretty damning.

[ageingdisgracefully]

I didn't realise that there had been a mother in the picture.

Fascinating to see an actual murder trial. Even moreso as there wasn't a body.

[ageingdisgracefully]

Also wondering how come Cairney took the stand. Would that have been down to his barrister or himself? I thought I saw his barrister visibly cringing when he was giving evidence..

Interesting about the cadaver dog appearing to find something and then nothing being found apart from animal bones. If she had been burned as the fireman's evidence suggested, then the dog's actions make sense.

Shame the fireman didn't make a statement to that effect at the time. .

[PineappleDanish]

I think it's down to the accused. The legal team are there to represent you, they can advise and recommend, but can't stop you giving evidence if you want to. And he clearly wanted to.

[ageingdisgracefully]

Yes, he was desperate to get up there, wasn't he?

I wonder if he's regretting it now..

[PineappleDanish]

Cairney came across as a very self-centred, arrogant man. His advocate said "you're not a stupid man" which is true, but Cairney clearly thought the best lawyers in Scotland were a bunch of numpties and that he could run rings around them. He's one of those people who isn't smart enough to realise his own limitations.

The stuff about the cadaver dog - it found bone, but they couldn't prove or disprove that any of it was human, let alone Margaret. The firefighter's testimony was very odd. Loved the teacher though, she was outstanding. Clear, confident, assertive but not rude.

[ageingdisgracefully]

I got the impression that the bone didn't pass the threshold for being undoubtedly human, but also wondering whether the dog would be able to detect human remains having been burned at the site. Obviously there's no evidence that it WAS Margaret.

And also, had the odd fireman stated to the police at the time that he had smelled burning human flesh, then that could have been taken into consideration as evidence and triggered an investigation.

Had it been Margaret's body burning, it would have been too late for her, but at least it would have triggered an investigation sooner.

[Inappropriatefemale]

I don’t believe that if they murdered Margaret in 1999 then they would not be burning her body in 2008, plus there would be no flesh left by this point.

She could well be in the water next to Seacroft.

The water beside Seacroft looked beautiful, very scenic, but it’s tarnished due to what happened.

[Inappropriatefemale]

they would be not not be

[MazDazzle]

I watched both episodes last night. It’s a shocking story.

I don’t think the documentary was great. I had hoped that the second episode would fill in the gaps, but so many details weren’t mentioned.

[Inappropriatefemale]

What about the ‘help’ message and the stick figure beside it behind where the dressing table was?! That seems like Margaret’s cry for help, what a shame.

[billysboy]

good old social services

There will no doubt be a lengthy enquiry and lots of hand wringing but no one will be to blame !