BBC 2 The Disappearance of Margaret Fleming

[informedisgood]

Anyone else watching? Thank goodness her "careres" were finally exposed.

[Inappropriatefemale]

Yeah asides from the killers then I blame social services too.

[Londonborncatty]

It was so sad. April’s father sounded like a good man that protected her. Knowing he was dying and hoping he was choosing the right people to car her his daughter is heartbreaking. Hopefully they are together again.

[Inappropriatefemale]

Margaret should have been put into an assisted living place for vulnerable young adults.

Just how long did Margaret have to live with those 2 before December 1999?

[Elieza]

Such a sad story. Such a failure by those who were meant to keep Margaret safe.

It looked to me like Eddie was a strong, frightening bully and an evil little shit. I imagine Avril was a nice, regular woman once, but he bullied and threatened her and turned her into the blank, soulless husk we see in the courtroom and in the video interview footage when she couldn't think of what she would say Margaret if she could speak to her now. When she said in the interview she had plenty more to say but couldn’t that made me think she was still frightened of what he was capable of

Poor Margaret. For her sake I hope she is resting peacefully. Because if she has been sold to modern slavery as a prostitute or something it really doesn’t bear thinking about and for those women that is a life worse than death.

[Inappropriatefemale]

Yes this sums it up perfectly well.

In the police interview then Avril said that her knows where Margaret is, I don’t’, which is very telling too but why the hell hasn’t she spoken up?! They’re not together now so she shouldn’t fear anything.

[Inappropriatefemale]

‘He knows where Margaret is, I don’t’, is what Avril said, as if Eddie was getting the letters from MF and not she.

Eddie definitely did it and perhaps Avril helped him get rid of the body.

Avril really fucking annoyed me by just being her glaicket self, regardless if she was a victim of Eddie too then there’s no excuse for having not spoken up yet, loyal to the last.

[lorettalemon]

I did wonder afterwards what happened to her mother and why she hadn't made any enquiries about how her daughter was during such a long period - it would have been obvious that Margaret was a very vulnerable person so I'm surprised no one enquired about her at all.

I'm sure that the carers did kill poor Margaret but in a way I was surprised that the jury considered murder had occurred beyond reasonable doubt given that the couple had obviously got her off their hands somehow but whilst they probably had killed her, I'm not sure about the beyond reasonable doubt part. I think it was right they were convicted but it's the sort of case where people like that could get away with it because there wasn't enough evidence that they actually did it

[ageingdisgracefully]

I'm wondering too whether, had Cairney not given evidence, whether the jury would have found him guilty, given that there was no body.

I think he nailed his own coffin by thinking he was cleverer than the justice process.

He was cunning, but not clever enough to twig that the letter would not match Margaret's level of education.

[ParkheadParadise]

I think Eddie couldn't wait to take the stand. It was definitely his downfall.

[Inappropriatefemale]

Avril didn’t take the stand which made it all the more glaringly obvious that she was guilty, any innocent person wouldn’t be able to wait to prove that they were innocent.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Watched this last night - I thought it was heartbreaking. That poor girl. I suspect that she was abused and brutalised by that evil pair, and that she probably starved to death, developed an illness due to poor nutrition and bad treatment, or they beat her just once too often. And to think that her late father trusted them to take care of her. They must have thought they'd got away with it - I'm glad they didn't. But if the Benefits system hadn't changed their policy of never checking once a doctor had written a note saying they would never be capable of work, her tragic disappearance and probable death Kath the hands of this vile couple would never have come to light. I wonder how many other poor innocents have suffered and even died similarly.

If a writer called a Scottish barrister 'McSporran' they'd be told to try harder.

I said something very similar to DH.

I loved when the defence lawyer for Avril said you are only speculating and she mouthed ... and so are you! Brilliant!

I loved that bit, too! And she wasn't speculating - she was offering her professional opinion based on her personal knowledge of Margaret, her intellectual abilities and her personality. She was an excellent witness and I'll bet she's a brilliant teacher.

On a totally unrelated and rather unkind note (I'm going to be a bit spiteful here) - Avril's barrister was a rather strange little chap, wasn't he? Wig on sideways, what looked like untreated eczema/ psoriasis/ dermatitis on his face and very plump, pink feminine hands. (I said I was going to be horrible - sorry!). The other defence barrister had the most dreadful chewed and discoloured nails I'd ever seen.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Or was it Eddie's barrister with the wonky wig? Either way - didn't look terribly professional, and I think he relied too much on the fact that there was no body, and that after so many years there were no signs of creation/ decomposition etc. Had Eddie not insisted on taking the stand, the defence barristers could possibly have managed a damage limitation exercise, but Eddie was so obviously a nasty bully - and people aren't stupid, just because he looked a feeble old man in a wheelchair, they knew he hadn't been like that 20 years ago - they came to the conclusion that the likelihood was that that poor girl had died in their "care", and probably violently.

I think though that that was why the prosecution also brought charges of fraud - there was no doubt at all that they had stolen the benefits money, so even if they got off with the murder, they wouldn't walk out scott free. (Pardon the pun)

[Inappropriatefemale]

I saw the awful nails too and the other defence solicitor looked like he had a moon face and I immediately thought he had cancer!

[ParkheadParadise]

Eddie's barrister reminded me of Alex Norton.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Gosh - you're right - he was moon-faced. I hadn't given it a thought.

I wonder if he has Cushing's?

[Lastleafonthetree]

Such a harrowing case - that poor young woman. I didn't hear any mention of her father's profession during the documentary but according to the BBC, he was a tradesman who'd retrained as a lawyer.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48523897

Strikes me that he made a very odd choice of carers, particularly given his job. How did he come across them? Why on earth would he think they were the best people to leave his daughter with? I think there are many unanswered questions - but above all, what a tragic life poor Margaret had.

[Mrsappleby]

Did anyone notice in the 2nd episode when he was outside court in his wheelchair?
I'm sure he called to the prosecution barrister 'Ya bastard' as he walked by.

[ParkheadParadise]

@Mrsappleby
I seen that.

[Inappropriatefemale]

Yep seen the bastard comment!

[Chihaha]

He definitely did- I lip read and noticed it straight away!

[Chihaha]

Gosh - you're right - he was moon-faced. I hadn't given it a thought.

Please dont speculate on cancer, Cushing's etc. It isn't kind.

[IHaveBrilloHair]

It really isn't kind, and its unnesesary.
I was devastated when a Dr once described my face as that.
I was on high dose steroids for asthma, I know fine well what I looked like, I didn't need to be told by anyone else.

[Inappropriatefemale]

We’re on a discussion thread though, he won’t know we’ve said anything and I wasn’t being nasty, I was simply stating what I thought, I didn’t mean to cause offence so sorry if I did.

[DuckWillow]

Watched this with interest as I followed the case fairly extensively. It was quite obvious they had done something to Margaret and that she was dead.

I am more shocked that she was off radar for all those years and nobody noticed. I am glad there’s going to be an Inquiry into her case.

Vulnerable adults need safeguarding,

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Please dont speculate on cancer, Cushing's etc. It isn't kind.

You are right - sorry.