BBC 2 The Disappearance of Margaret Fleming

[informedisgood]

Anyone else watching? Thank goodness her "careres" were finally exposed.

[purpleme12]

Yes it was interesting to see it all.
I thought the defence and prosecuting barristers looked very similar so I kept getting mixed up about who's who!
I never want to be on a jury

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I thought the defence and prosecuting barristers looked very similar so I kept getting mixed up about who's who!

They all have the same hairstyle. . .

[longtompot]

I’ve not watched it, but just read the bbc article from the link posted above. This is the saddest thing I’ve read for a while :(

"I taught her for two years and I am here speaking about her as a person and I am one of the only people who remembers her.

"That is one of the saddest things that this wee girl was forgotten - abandoned with supposed carers, and forgotten about for 20 years."

No wonder she was angry. No one was telling her why her dad was in hospital. She didn’t have the mental capacity from the sounds of it to work out what was going on. I wonder if she got beaten often due to being angry, and that was how she met her end.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I wonder if she got beaten often due to being angry, and that was how she met her end.

That was my thought too, Longtom.

People who knew her said that physically she was a big, strong girl - though she would still not have anywhere near the strength of a man like EC - and I suspect that they underfed and brutalised her to keep her physically weak, and to stop her from leaving (and taking her allowances with her). They might even have told her her dad don't want her anymore - there's nothing (as far as I am aware) that indicates that she knew he was dead.

I think she was largely locked in that horrible room and left. Just left alone, day in day out - fed and toileted sporadically, when they could be bothered, and that she either died there of neglect, or EC lost his temper with her (perhaps she was crying or begging to get out) and beat her just once too often, and just a bit too hard.

Poor, lonely soul - she must have been so frightened and unhappy. Just awful.

[Chihaha]

They might even have told her her dad don't want her anymore - there's nothing (as far as I am aware) that indicates that she knew he was dead.

She would have known as she lived with her mum after her dad died and before she moved in with EC and AJ

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

AH - thanks Chihaha - I should have thought of that - it didn't process.

Bad Brain!

[PineappleDanish]

Reported on the BBC news this morning that planning has been approved for 2 new houses on the site of the former property in Inverkip. Sold 2 years ago for £120k and demolished.

No mention of where the money has gone, would hope grabbed under the Proceeds of Crime legislation.

[VivaDixie]

I watched this last night after having read the thread. So sad. I felt that the BBC were very clever in their implication that the lake holds the clue. So many close up and far off shots of the lake whenever it was mentioned that there is no body. Also during Whispering Grass there is a line which quotes the words 'buried within' and there was a close up of the lake

Something changed Avril. She was relaxed and smiling in earlier photos. But now she is a shell and is clearly terrified of Cairney.

I remember the BBC interview at the time and was speechless then.

Poor love RIP Margaret

[WaxOnFeckOff]

It's not a lake (or loch) it's the firth of clyde - essentially the sea and is tidal. If there was a body to dispose then it could be anywhere but i'm not aware of any reports of unidentified remains having been found anywhere. He'd be well experienced about the local conditions and perfectly capable of weighting it down and dumping it in deep water though i'm sure.

[IHaveBrilloHair]

It's v deep too given there's a naval base on it!
(I stay on the other side)

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

It's the deepest coastal waters of the British Isles, and part of it is trench-like - very deep and very narrow.

I doubt that there is anything much left of that poor girl now.

[Chihaha]

Is the money from the sale what avril has tried to use to part pay back the 180k that has been rejected?

[Inappropriatefemale]

I wondered too where on earth AJ would get any cash to pay back the DWP

[ElderAve]

I just got around to it last night.

A sad sad story and no doubt there was neglect, abuse and fraud but I'm amazed the jury could come to the conclusion there was no reasonable doubt about murder. I think they probably did it, but no reasonable doubt?

I thought the story about the school friend who invited her to the dance was sweet but also odd? Although the friends did seem to remember her fondly.

I wanted to know more about how she came to be left in their care, wouldn't/shouldn't social services have been much more involved?

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I thought the story about the school friend who invited her to the dance was sweet but also odd?

I have a horrible suspicion that this was a nasty joke, but it backfired when Margaret's dad went round to see the lad involved. I don't believe that any teenage boy would be prepared to be the butt of all of his mates' jokes just because he felt sorry for a girl like Margaret. It is an age when most boys are incredibly self-conscious, and don't appreciate the cruelty of many of their "jokes."

[VivaDixie]

Schadenfreude sadly that was the conclusion I came to also. I wanted to believe him but I also felt it odd


@Inappropriatefemale I am wondering if you should get your post removed as it is extremely outing to the individual and they could get into a lot of trouble for gossiping about inmates and speculating on their MH.

[Inappropriatefemale]

It’s not outing as it could be anybody I’m talking about, nobody would know who I am or who the woman I’m talking about is.

[VivaDixie]

Ok it was just a thought. 👍

[Inappropriatefemale]

I’m now thinking you may be correct actually!

I’m going to get it removed so thanks very much.

[qate]

Desperately sad case - especially that someone could just disappear off the radar like this. Interesting behind the scenes look as well, especially the interviews with the barristers. Think I read from EC's barrister that client confidentiality prevented him from saying whether he advised EC re taking the stand or not which I took to mean that he thought it was a terrible idea but couldn't persuade EC! In two minds as to whether they deliberately killed her or whether it was an accident or neglect but think the cover up (letters from London were only sent a few weeks after she disappeared) is damning.

We live in the area - house has been bought by two "developers" from Coventry I think (although "vultures" frankly may be a better description). Coating it in "we want to bring positive memories to a sad area" but clearly just out to make a quick buck. (Did wonder whether they just scan crime reports to try and buy cheap property!). They had planned to put four houses on it but plans have now been revised to 2 or 3 - current plans look better than the original one did. Real shame.

[VivaDixie]

@qate am I correct that one of the other 2 houses was also sold? I had a nosey on Rightmove and it looks like another was sold for circa £65k. Significantly less than Seacroft

@Inappropriatefemale 🙂

[WaxOnFeckOff]

Sometimes when it's a low sale price its a pay off for such things as divorce or bereavement etc or owners may have had an equity release arrangement and family paid it off to keep the house etc. The two houses next to it looked like they were worth considerably more than that.

[VivaDixie]

@WaxOnFeckOff ah yes I understand. I did wonder as it was a huge discrepancy in price and condition

[MissSmith1]

I don't think it's common for former Institutionalised people to be dumped and ignored. So they can end up like Margaret. I did voluntary work and round here they are living in sheltered accommodation (if their family didn't want them) and quite well cared for ime.