BBC 2 The Disappearance of Margaret Fleming

[informedisgood]

Anyone else watching? Thank goodness her "careres" were finally exposed.

[colouringinpro]

No reaction at all to the verdict. Chilling. Well done that Prosecutor and everyone involved.

[colouringinpro]

Just watched. Awfully sad. I echo many other poster in cheering on the wonderful teacher God love her. Avril is a mystery to me, she does look totally dead behind the eyes, but her old friend found her lovely - what happened there? And him? Clearly a very nasty, nasty man.

RIP Margaret

[eminencegrise]

I have a child with HFA who can be very hard to handle and easily influenced and this case is terrifyingly sad.

[Izzabellasasperella]

I would imagine her Mum didn't want to be in the programme. Many people judge her for appearing to abandon Margaret. If she was recognised she would probably get lots of abuse.

[ClaudiaNaughton]

They may be allowed to refuse being televised.

[purpleme12]

We didn't see Avril's mum in the programme no. People above say she gave evidence so it just mustn't have been used in the programme

[ElderAve]

Did we see Margaret's mum? I don't recall any mention of her. The woman crying at the end had been in a relationship with her Dad, a "kind of step mum", in her words but they weren't married .

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

They were Avril's mother and brother, as I gather their evidence was crucial in determining when Margaret was left seen alive. I don't know the Scottish law on this but my impression is that the prosecution can call whoever they like and you have to attend or face prosecution for obstructing the course of justice. The only exception used to be the spouse of the defendant, but I don't know if that still applies (used to be a regular feature of whodunnits, key witness suddenly marrying chief suspect so she didn't have to testify against him).

[LizzieMacQueen]

I'm getting confused too. There was talk upthread of a mother and brother giving evidence. I thought that was Avril's they were talking about though that would mean they were witnesses for the Crown which seems unlikely.

[CassandrasCastle]

This was fascinating, although of course very sad too. I love seeing the workings of the court room...
Channel 4 actually did one just like this a couple of years back, for the new trial of Nat Fraser, also an amazing programme:

www.channel4.com/press/news/murder-trial

[Inappropriatefemale]

Ahh thank you Gasp0de, I wondered why people kept slating the stepmother!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

InappropriateFemale, I think you are getting confused between the woman in the documentary and Margaret's mother, who wasn't in it. The former was her Dad's fiancee and tried to keep in touch but was rebuffed. She said how much she regretted that. Her mother gave evidence at the trial but had presumably refused to take part in the documentary. She was the one who handed Margaret over to E and A for respite care. She was told M no longer wanted to see her and although she did report this to the police she then seems to have accepted the situation and made no further attempts to keep in touch with her only child.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

There are only 2 people to blame. There is a list of others that could have made a difference to the outcome - maybe...

Social workers
GPs/other medical professionals
Police
Relatives of Margaret especially her mum
Relatives of Avril/Eddie
Neighbours

There is to be a review of whether authorities could have or should have spotted something, but again, that may not be down to specific individuals, it could be down to flaws in the system.

It's obviously too late now to help Margaret, but hopefully lessons can be learned to stop it happening again.

[Inappropriatefemale]

At the stepmothers door I mean

[Inappropriatefemale]

Margaret was a stepdaughter and I don’t feel any of the blame is at her door.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

...Or she could be an uncaring cow that was happy to abandon her daughter, but it still remains that this is not her fault.

[FredaFrogspawn]

Perhaps that’s true.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

As I said, I personally would but we don't know her mother's mental state and it was clear that's she never been a full time carer for margaret in many years, even when she was possibly easier to handle. I think she compartmentalised that she believed her daughter was getting cared for and was happy and that social services were involved so she'd be contacted if there was an issue.

[FredaFrogspawn]

But for all those years. Wouldn’t you keep trying if it was your girl?

I am being a bit judgemental I agree.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

The results of the review of the situation will be interesting.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

From what I read, she contacted social services and the police and then received a letter she thought was from Margaret. Personally I would have followed it up more, but I understand where she was coming from if I'm honest. It sounds like she's never been able to cope, she thought Margaret was happier without her and as far as she was aware, was being cared for and part of her was probably relieved. that doesn't mean that she was to blame here. There are loads of people who could have done more but at the end of the day there are only 2 people who know the truth of what happened and their lies/silence tells us all we need to know.

[FredaFrogspawn]

I still have an issue with her own mother not following it up beyond one visit. That’s what separates her from most other young people with such needs.

[WaxOnFeckOff]

I don't think Margaret was care experienced though was she? Until her dad became ill, she probably didn't have much connection with social services, I think that began when her mum couldn't cope and she then took Cairney up on the offer of respite care. I think Margaret was already familiar with him and Avril. That relationship probably built up when her dad was friends with them and Margaret was probably easy to handle at that time. They probably thought it would be a nice wee earner for a pretty easy job, looking after someone that was pretty amiable. The reality was though that a teenage Margaret in mourning for her father and angry and lashing out was a bit of tougher prospect.

[FredaFrogspawn]

The principle of care in the community wasn’t wrong - did you ever go into any of those institutions?- but the resourcing has been abysmal. It needs funding to work.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

I don't think it's common for former Institutionalised people to be dumped and ignored.

It's Care in the Community.

Thank you, Mrs Thatcher.