Madeleine documentary

[mentallyfacked]

New documentary due to be released on Netflix on Friday.

I've covered this subject quite extensively while I was studying law. I will be watching with a heavy heart, it is just one of those cases I can't let go of sadly.

Anyone else going to be watching?

Nobody knows. I’ve weighed up the facts and not gone by emotion and my stance has always been that they didn’t play a part in her disappearance.

I definitely don't KNOW they didn't do it. I just think that, despite some posters' claims to the contrary, there is zero evidence to suppose they did, and that the parents' assessment of their child's abilities is probably more accurate than anyone else's.

And finally I think that posting "Well my child could open the gate age one!" without any quialifying comment is different to saying "Her parents may have been wrong about what she could do, my child once opened our front door and I had no idea he could". I think that the first type of post obviously has an agenda and it's disingenuous to claim otherwise.

Exactly- there is zero evidence of their involvement, or of an abduction, or an accident.

Negligence?or a breach of the duty of care in law parlance.

Whether she fell and hit her head looking for them from the window above the sofa, was over-sedated, somehow left the apartment on her own looking for them or was abducted. Those children were left to their own devices despite services offered on the complex to babysit.

I don't care what anyone says Madeline was too young and her siblings were far too young and vulnerable to be left alone for tapas and drinks.

There. I said it.

acciocat Maddie has gone. That is the evidence that either she wandered off or was abducted.

DeadWife You think you are being brave? Isaidit
How the fuck does saying something that thousands of people have said over and over again help anyone?
And does that mean the parents deserved to have their DD taken away from them? Does that mean they deserve to be treated like shit by lots of the public?

Today 15:52 clairemcnam

acciocat Maddie has gone. That is the evidence that either she wandered off or was abducted.

Madeleine has gone. The only conclusive evidence that can be drawn from that is exactly that - ie: what happened and her whereabouts are unknown

I think the parents have suffered enough.

I can't see this thread lasting.

I can't imagine what it is like for them.

I don't retract my opinion.

What evidence is there that she wandered off or was abducted Claire?

Two police forces, £12 million pounds and 12 years later, there doesn't seem to be any.

I think the parents have suffered enough.

That's fairly uncontroversial.

I can't see this thread lasting.

It's lasted well into the 900s.

I can't imagine what it is like for them.

None of us can.

acciocat She has gone. The evidence does not support the theory that her parents were involved in her disappearance. So the only thing left is that she was either abducted, or wandered off hurt herself and died. A child can not physically just disappear.

That's what @acciocat is SAYING @clairemcnam

Nobody can know with any real certainty which of those it was.

I don't understand what you mean here. Do you think uneducated, working class parents would deny their daughter a decent burial?

I am guessing that the PP meant that uneducated, working-class parents might be less confident of their ability to explain themselves to the authorities and be believed, in the event of an accidental death of a child. And might therefore be more likely to panic and try to cover it up.

I also think many of the so-called inconsistencies and much of the behaviour other posters have classed as odd or suspicious is entirely understandable, with just a tiny bit of knowledge of human nature or indeed any common sense. So I don't feel suspicious that they wrote out a couple of timelines when they waited for the police - I can imagine the conversation going "Who went at 9? When did Russell get back? What time did Gerry leave? Someone write it down for me... no, that's not right, I'm sure Jane had gone by the time Gerry left." with someone scribbling it down because they knew it would be important to work out the timeline but there were nine of them and they'd been drinking and were overwrought. I can see Gerry or Kate ringing Gerry's family and saying "Madeleine's gone, the wondow was open, someone must have jemmied the shutter!" the night she disappeared, then Gerry's sister saying to the press "The shutters were broken into". I can imagine someone saying "Gerry, just go for a walk, go for a run, play tennis or something, you need to get out of the apartment, it'll make you feel better". These things don't seem like major issues to me, they seem very easily explained. So when I read people hinting that those sort of things imply guilt, it makes me roll my eyes at how some people find it almost impossible to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

I do wonder if it's because I have had two unexpected bereavements of close family members in recent years, and then received a crushing diagnosis for my child, and I know that I reacted in a way that some people might have thought callous or odd. So I do know that people under tremendous amounts of strain don't necessarily act like you'd expect them to act.

I suspect you are right. A lot of people seem to struggle to see things from other people's point of view. Something I find odd, but that I see on MN all the time.

I can see Gerry or Kate ringing Gerry's family and saying "Madeleine's gone, the wondow was open, someone must have jemmied the shutter!" the night she disappeared, then Gerry's sister saying to the press "The shutters were broken into". I can imagine someone saying "Gerry, just go for a walk, go for a run, play tennis or something, you need to get out of the apartment, it'll make you feel better". These things don't seem like major issues to me, they seem very easily explained.

Completely agree. Some people don't exercise their imagination.

But none of that makes them infallible in their opinion of Madeleine's gate opening or door sliding abilities.

Their emphatic ruling out of an abduction is a separate issue entirely.

I can see Gerry or Kate ringing Gerry's family and saying "Madeleine's gone, the wondow was open, someone must have jemmied the shutter!" the night she disappeared, then Gerry's sister saying to the press "The shutters were broken into". I can imagine someone saying "Gerry, just go for a walk, go for a run, play tennis or something, you need to get out of the apartment, it'll make you feel better". These things don't seem like major issues to me, they seem very easily explained.

Completely agree. Some people don't exercise their imagination.

But none of that makes them infallible in their opinion of Madeleine's gate opening or door sliding abilities.

Their emphatic ruling out of an abduction is a separate issue entirely.

I agree they might be wrong, but I really can see why they emphatically rule it out, though.

When DS was 3, to escape in the middle of the night, he would have had to open his bedroom door (heavy, he struggled to push it open), open/climb over the stairgate (never once was able to do this), and then once downstairs get a chair from the kitchen to stand on to open the chain on the front door (not impossible to get the chair, but he would have struggled with the chain as it's a tricky one which adults who are unfamiliar with often can't manage). If he'd disappeared, techically he COULD have escaped himself. But I'd never have believed it, I'd be certain he'd been abducted. I'd be absolutely SURE, because I know what he could and couldn't do at that age.

And because of this, I can understand why they are so SURE she didn't get out herself. It's possible for me to understand them while at the same time not being sure they're right, but some posters seem to find it impossible to understand why they would be so sure, or why they would consistantly state this as a certainty. And if they are so sure, then I can also understand why they directed all the funds they received and all the public attention into looking for abductors. What would be the point, in their eyes, of wasting time and effort and money on searching scrubland when she MUST have been taken?

But if a thief had opened the window as Kate claimed could Madeleine not gave escaped that way?

Also, she was higher end nursery age and I've not met many who couldn't negotiate a safety gate.

I agree they might be wrong, but I really can see why they emphatically rule it out, though.

.... It's possible for me to understand them while at the same time not being sure they're right, but some posters seem to find it impossible to understand why they would be so sure, or why they would consistantly state this as a certainty.

I must admit I thought we were all simply disagreeing on whether it was reasonable to doubt the validity of their assessment. I missed any other aspect.

Also, she was higher end nursery age and I've not met many who couldn't negotiate a safety gate.

Yes. She went missing in May and was due to start school in September that year.

And we're not even talking about a child safety gate, are we?

Well I’ve just finished the last episode and found all the talk of human trafficking and paedophile networks really sobering. I was impressed with Jim Gamble’s contributions throughout, and his final words about the amount of money thrown at counter-terrorism stuff vs. the amount of money spent on bringing down child abuse networks really got to me.

I also had a browse on Twitter (which is obviously a cesspool at the best of times) and am going to watch journalist Sonia Poulton’s film on YouTube next. She is critical of Pulse, who produced the Netflix doc, and I’m curious as to what kind of axe she has to grind.

The Algarve was popular with well known celebrities who were, in fact, pedophiles. Either there are more than anybody realises or they were attracted to that area.

At the end of the day there’s those who think they’re totally innocent, those who think they’re not and will say so and those who think they’re not but hide behind the facade of “we just don’t know the truth” but won’t come out with what they really think.