Madeleine documentary

[mentallyfacked]

New documentary due to be released on Netflix on Friday.

I've covered this subject quite extensively while I was studying law. I will be watching with a heavy heart, it is just one of those cases I can't let go of sadly.

Anyone else going to be watching?

I missed that bit

edthebear

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

Service Information 1 August 2007
By Joao Direito, Inspector

Recovery of possible trace evidence

I bring to your attention in accordance with instructions received, that today, around 20h00, LPC Assistant Specialists Fernando Viegas and Lino Rodrigues, after seeing recorded images relating to the canine inspection conducted on 31 July 2007 in apartment 5A of the Ocean Club, duly explained in an official statement in the case file, they proceeded to collect [recover] the floor tiles where the dogs used in the activity indicated [alerted to] the possible existence of blood traces along with the position of a cadaver in that location.

Those tiles were lifted from the floor, in a way to preserve the possible traces intact for them to be subjected to examination by an authorised laboratory.

The activity was filmed in a way to illustrate the manner in which the uplifting was performed and the tools used, allowing that the experts would have a better understanding of all the circumstances inherent in the removal action. This resulted in the recordings of two video cassettes (Mini DV) which are attached.

The LPC officers are going to produce the official report.
That is all I have to advise.
Inspector, Joao Direito.

Ok so the police found loads of blood samples but no DNA match
Who's was the blood???

Yeah it sounds like there was loads of blood doesn't it? The spatters of blood identified were so tiny they were naked to the human eye. They were so small it was impossible to identify dna from them or how long they had been there. They were also not recovered until 3 months after the disappearance.

yes, they were invisible to the naked eye - that's why the police use dogs!

“Possible existence of blood traces”? That’s not quite “loads of blood”, is it?

Traces of blood in a holiday apartment could come from anywhere.

We've discussed Peter Hyatt upthread. His "science" is bollocks. A quick google suggests his qualifications are a degree from bible college.

The problem is that people aren't capable of critical thinking. I've seen the "48 questions Kate McCann refused to answer" thing all over social media. People see it as evidence without thinking about the fact that Kate McCann was questioned for more than 8 hours the previous day, where the Portuguese made it very clear that she was a suspect. They brought her in the following day and questioned her for 11 hours asking the same questions again but also asking things like whether she had considered giving Madeleine to a relative to look after (where did this come from?). They also offered her a plea deal there and then. At some point she just stopped answering them. It's not really surprising.

Sorry they questioned her for 3.5 hours the following day. It was over 11 hours in total

I agree that the reasons some people cite as ‘evidence’ of the mccanns guilt is rubbish- the dogs, the fact KM answered ‘no comment’, the fact she washed the cuddly toy etc

Fact remains though that there is no evidence of abduction either.

Which is why I think she wondered off and drowned. That's really the only thing that could happen with no evidence being left IMO.

KM was never offered a 'deal' by the PJ. That is a complete fabrication.

KM interview 6 September 2007
www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

KM questions 7 September 2007
www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/48_Questions_07_09_07.htm#p10p2557

I don’t believe the parents had anything to do with it. I do suspect that someone in the Tapas restaurant might have done though. The group were given a block booking for the week (normally bookings weren’t allowed but they could because of the group size - also it was discovered that the restaurant had a book with details of their booking on which included details of them wanting to be able to keep an eye on the children). I think they will have seen various members of the group going at certain intervals. I think this will have given the ideal opportunity for someone in the restaurant to give a tip off to another party and let them know when the coast was clear. The twins didn’t wake up despite all the commotion that was going on which makes it look like they had been drugged to keep them from waking and raising the alarm. It all sounds very planned. As a parent I find it absolutely terrifying.

Just finished watching episode three where the dogs were used. My questions are 1. Have they identified the cadaver or blood-scents to be MM? Could it of been anyone's blood who hurt themselves in the apartment? 2. Has anyone died in the apartment previously? A heart attack ?

No one had died in that apartment previously.

Seems an awful.lot of planning and risk to abduct a child from an apartment.

The twins will forever live in her shadow'

Must be horrific. Not just the constant pain of missing her but also knowing that they were actually present, sleeping, in the same room when whatever happened occurred. How very easily it could've been them.

I'm not so sure. You don't really grieve people you don't remember. Not in a real sense.

I've seen at close quarters a situation where a child was brought by a mother who was widowed when the baby was newborn. It's a second hand grief for the child, not a personal loss.

They'll probably be in their late teens or twenties before they emerge from the self-obsession of adolescence and really process it properly.

RedHelen where was it confirmed that no-one had died in the apartment previously?

I also don't think the parents had anything to do with it.... the PJ fucked up the entire investigation and then panicked. The DNA wasn't proven to be MMs and could've been any of the families, there was no blood, dogs are fallible.

If they had hurt her by accident then they would have called an ambulance... why would they hide it?

Cole- I agree about it being a sort of second hand grief as I doubt the siblings will have any real memories of MM. But I still think the impact on them must be huge because the incident is the backdrop to their lives. However normal their parents try to make their lives, they can’t help but have constant reminders

There has to be an impact on the other children. It has to be constant in their parents minds. Much less freedom than normal for their ages.

Something the documentary has got me thinking about. They know children go missing every year into pedophilia rings, when eventually happens to them when they are no longer children and attractive to paedophiles?
Do they kill them, let them go, traffic them on to other gangs?

The owner of the apartment confirmed it.

As I've said before the PJ had a lot of avenues to explore plus the paparazzi constantly decrying them. In the circumstances I dontvthibk they did a rubbish job. Political influence got the chief removed from his job which is downright disgraceful. I really hope the truth emerges, possibly a confession a long way down the line as happened with Ben Needham.

Edthebear I doubt they'd let them go unfortunately.

It’s been said before: a U.K. police force would have worked on the theory of the child wandering off first and foremost, because in most cases that’s what’s happened. I imagine that likelihood increases when you’re talking about a child left alone in an unlocked building.

In terms of foul play, again, a U.K. a police force would have the parents and other people close to the family under suspicion because in the majority of cases they will be involved.

A U.K. police force wouldn’t be putting road blocks up quickly. (Incidentally, if the theory of abduction by a stranger - which is extremely rare- is correct, then the child would be whisked away in seconds and would be out of that area well before road blocks could be set up anyway.)

I’m not claiming the PJ were infallible - but then what police force is? God knows, UK forces have had enough issues with scandal, corruption, failure to act on some of the sexual exploitation gangs quickly enough, over the years.

It would have been an added pressure working in the spotlight of criticism right from the start because the McCanns and those around them seemed determined to paint a picture of the PJ being incompetent, while at the same time refusing to cooperate with the investigation by not participating in a reconstruction.

Feels as though from the start, the McCanns behaved as though they were more important than any other parent of a missing child. It’s come across as arrogant... dismissive of anyone who wasn’t doing things exactly their way. But their way - asking people to donate for private investigators, hasn’t thrown up any evidence at all either. Not to mention the £11 million upwards spent so far by the Met....

It’s tragic but the blame game doesn’t help their cause. Reading through the PJ files it’s clear that anyone with even remote connection was interviewed, investigated, searches took place, places were dug up when it was considered it might yield some clue... but nothing.

Feels as though from the start, the McCanns behaved as though they were more important than any other parent of a missing child. It’s come across as arrogant... dismissive of anyone who wasn’t doing things exactly their way. But their way - asking people to donate for private investigators, hasn’t thrown up any evidence at all either. Not to mention the £11 million upwards spent so far by the Met....

It doesn’t surprise me that you think like that acciocat given what you’ve previously written about how you feel where the McCanns are concerned.

I didn’t see them in the same way, to me they came across as people desperate to be in control of finding their daughter.

Very young children do occasionally wander off and are generally returned almost immediately. When my eldest was about 2 years old I underestimated his Houdini qualities. He had got a chair and stood on it and somehow unlocked the door.

It was about 6 am when my mother came screaming like a lunatic into my room and flung my covers back saying he wasn't in bed. We all immediately ran outside and he was wandering around holding the hand of a kindly builder who was walking him around the neighbourhood waiting for banshees to come screaming out of a house.

I've often thought that man was brave but I could tell that he was simply guarding him and trying to return him. Once or twice I have spotted a child momentarily lost and held their hand and stood still and waited a moment or two. You always spot a frantic parent very quickly.

I also once spotted my friend's 2 and 3 year old running along a pavement and put them in my car and drove them to where I knew she was. She was hysterical but those kids had form for running in opposite directions.

What I'm saying is that if a child innocently wanders off they are highly unlikely to by chance be found by a paedo and much more likely to run into someone who helps return them within 5 minutes. If she drowned her body would have washed up somewhere.