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Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

999 replies

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:51

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

OP posts:
GoldenGumballs · 09/03/2019 19:37

It was heartbreaking to hear one of them admitting to being Jackson’s “lover”, he was a small kids ffs.
Jarvis Cocker had him sussed.

Oblomov19 · 09/03/2019 19:40

Saddened by it all. Can't imagine these 2 will gain anything: it's sadly notoriously hard to prove, very little evidence, plus they both lied before, so I can't imagine this will end well.

birdsandroses · 09/03/2019 19:43

Thanks @RageAgainsttheVendingMachine for that additional info. I got that Safechuck wasn’t asked to testify just from watching the documentary. Safechuck said MJ rang him to ask him to testify and Safechuck said he wouldn’t.

It could still be once the investigation officially went to trial Ross and others in his legal team decided anyway they wouldn’t ask Safechuck to testify for the reasons you gave?

teyem · 09/03/2019 19:49

I don't think they are idiots. I don't think they are self absorbed. I don't think they are begging for it. I don't think they deserve the contempt of the world. I don't think, in the case of MJ, that they were money grabbing either.

Hughes12345 · 09/03/2019 19:52

Lots of people have had him sussed for a very long time.

birdsandroses · 09/03/2019 19:53

@RageAgainsttheVendingMachine, sorry I made a mistake above, I see reading your post again it was the judge who decided Safechuck couldn’t testify. I appreciate you are just detailing the full facts as best as possible.

I still think this doesn’t mean SC wasn’t saying the truth when he said MJ rang him and asked him to testify as this could ha been right at the start before the judge’s decision that Safechuck wouldn’t be permitted to testify for defence.

Hughes12345 · 09/03/2019 19:53
dragonflyinn10 · 09/03/2019 20:00

Just watched the Oprah interview I now leaning towards they are telling the truth why do I see it more in James than I do wade James looks utterly broken devastated wades mum should of listened to that documentary ALL OF IT

Smoggle · 09/03/2019 20:11

If this was just a local teacher or cub scout leader who had 9 year old "special friends" who he bought gifts, took on holiday and had sleep in his bed every night, no one, no mother, would be arguing that there was probably an innocent explanation and no sexual element. If 4 boys accused Mr Smith of abusing them in separate incidents while they were alone overnight in his bed with him, there wouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind.

PickledLimes · 09/03/2019 20:15

Article here www.thecut.com/2019/03/why-do-michael-jacksons-alleged-victims-seem-so-stoic.html regarding the varying reactions of child abuse victims. I think that some here could do with reading it.(Not that I expect it'll make any difference)

I especially like this quote.

"Where we fail as witnesses to these disclosures is in our cultural ignorance regarding victim psychology, says Freyd. “I get hired by attorneys to go and explain to juries why victims are often passive when they’re assaulted, or why victims don’t remember, or don’t tell,” she says. “I often feel that they wouldn’t need to hire me if there was more knowledge and literacy out there about victim behavior and perpetrator behavior.”

PickledLimes · 09/03/2019 20:19

And another on similar issues with number 5 addressing memory.

www.bbc.com/future/story/20180926-myths-about-sexual-assault-and-rape-debunked

Girlinstripedpyjamas · 09/03/2019 20:24

Smoggle. Exactly

vjg13 · 09/03/2019 20:28

It was a powerful documentary that really illustrated the concept of grooming on the children and the wider family. I sincerely hope others who have been victims of any similar abuse will tell their stories and get help as it opens up understanding.

colouringinpro · 09/03/2019 20:30

Useful article pickled

teatimez · 09/03/2019 20:34

rageagainst what is your source for you saying Shane - Wade's brother does not believe that the abuse took place?

Why would he take part in the documentary?

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 09/03/2019 20:48

I've read that there are allegedly 11 more accusers who have come forward. The same sites saying that are indeed saying his body may be exhumed for dna sampling. That could well be speculation and sensationalism. The likelihood of something else containing incriminating dna in incriminating circumstances after so long (and given the nature of it) is very small

Ozzybobgoblin · 09/03/2019 20:49

Link?
For what DNA?

Ozzybobgoblin · 09/03/2019 20:49

Sorry that's in reply to the post saying they are going to exhume his body

Ozzybobgoblin · 09/03/2019 20:50

Also I can't see anything about new victims coming forward, any links for that?

TripTrapTripTrapOverTheBridge · 09/03/2019 20:51

ozzy its just generic newsy type sites. I searched after it was mentioned here. I'm currently taking it with a pinch of salt as that is a huge step and I'm not what the purpose could possibly be

Ozzybobgoblin · 09/03/2019 20:58

Found it too. It's fairly rediculous. One article suggested DNA of new victims would still be on his body. I find that very hard to believe. That has to be impossible

colouringinpro · 09/03/2019 21:00

hushnow where did you hear about other victims coming forward?

mysticpizza · 09/03/2019 21:04

I don't think they are idiots. I don't think they are self absorbed. I don't think they are begging for it. I don't think they deserve the contempt of the world. I don't think, in the case of MJ, that they were money grabbing either

So what do you mean when you talk about 'the kind of parents who are easily manipulated by paedophiles' , equate them with the victims of cults then qualify it with a description exactly the opposite of what you're now saying?

gluteustothemaximus · 09/03/2019 21:05

Can't imagine these 2 will gain anything: it's sadly notoriously hard to prove, very little evidence, plus they both lied before, so I can't imagine this will end well.

Hopefully they will bring others out who were abused by him. There is 8 in total so far. Two Mexican boys from the 80's (buried due to MJ about to get some award from the President). Chandler which led to the first trial, Gavin which led to the second trial. Terry George (a British boy), and Micheal Jacobshagen, plus Wade and Safechuck.

There is SO much misinformation about sexual abuse flying around, it's insane.

For it to be a lie, it's one hell of a build up. Depression isn't something you can make up. These men struggled for years. And this 'lie' also extends to parents, siblings, spouses too? That's a lot of people involved.

I don't know what evidence people are expecting to find. Historical sexual abuse is based on circumstantial and anecdotal evidence, nothing physical. The FBI were watching him for 10 years? Well unless they had CCTV in his bedroom, they were not likely to find anything.

More to the point, he was a person of interest for 10 years; that's a long time to follow an innocent person around for.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 09/03/2019 21:06

teatimez Brew Read my post gain: Not Shane - of course he supports his brother. Shane's current colleague/friend he works with -
Scott Ross.
Scott was the private investigator for the defence and questioned Wade for 4 hours 2005. He says he didn't have any fondness for MJ nor did he always agree with Tom Mesereau but he does not believe Wade. He hopes this will not affect his working relationship with Shane.