Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me

[SachaStark]

Anybody else planning to watch tonight? Part 1 of 2, 9pm, Channel 4.

I'm very intrigued to watch. I remember the Martin Bashir documentary being aired years ago, and the various backlashes/criticisms that happened afterwards.

Sinkgirl yes I totally agree

Sinkgirl totally agree

I have witnessed my sister being abused by a neighbour about 35 years ago. I lived in a different country and we were left alone without our parents most of the time back then. She was in primary school and I was in kindergarten and one day he took us in the fields not far from where we lived and he did his business in front of me and the way he spoke to my sister made me realised this wasn’t the first time.

My sister never talked to anyone about this and neither did I, in fact I have forgotten about it until recently. It seemed such a shameful thing to talk about and it probably cause a lot of guilt to my sister, so if anyone asked her now I’m sure she’d still deny it. It makes me really angry to know that guy got away with it and is probably happily married with children and grandchildren. I keep thinking sometimes that I would like to go back to that village and make a public announcement about what he did or report him to the police but no one would believe us. My sister has had health issues since she was a child and that’s why he managed to groom her, never attempted to do anything with me.

And I’ve heard other similar stories throughout my life.

Watching MJ documentary made me sick to my core, I had nightmares the first night. I think I’m light of the #Metoo# movement the victims or potential victims should at least be given the benefit of the doubt.

Triptrap wasn't conned. They knew he had a proper deep man voice. So why did he use a high, wee boy voice in public? Why would a man do that?

To perpetuate the image and idea that he was "a child in a man's body" so that he could continue to sleep with prepubescent children in his bed every night because he was a paedophile. An image an idea that came entirely from him. The whole world fell for it. I'm glad we are learning and that this is no longer acceptable.

The whole world fell for it. I'm glad we are learning and that this is no longer acceptable.

Yes that's the main thing

shecametostay I am so sorry to hear that thank you for sharing.

I don't want to out myself and I did not witness or suffer sexual abuse but as a child I was witness to a car accident.

The male driver who hit the pedestrian in front me of told me he was a father and told me not to say anything to police as he had a young child like me.

I was scared of the police in uniforms and so would not speak to anyone in a uniform.

They tried to visit me as plainclothes officers at my primary school to put me at ease.

I did not speak then.

They came to my house in plain clothes.

My parents asked me about it.

I never told the police anything.

In the end I convinced them that my school bag was tangled and so I was not looking ahead but was trying to untangle it.

I was pleased with myself as I thought that the father would not to go to jail.

I was pleased that I concocted a story they believed. I mean I didn't even know the guy.
I mean thankfully looking back the pedestrian was ok eventually but as a seven year old I lied to everyone. The driver was speeding.

I never ever told my parents.

I thought I was helping the drivers family.

I was 7 years old.

Shecametostay Awful.

for those who have shared their stories here.

Not at all close to the terrible abuse that people have suffered here but earlier when there was debate over James' different responses to when he realised it was wrong and I remembered how uncomfortable I felt as a child when I'd play in my friend's paddling pool in my swimming costume and her father would hide behind a wall and take photos of me. I became extremely uncomfortable when he did that and covered up but I couldn't have articulated why it made me feel bad. It didn't occur to me to tell my parents about it, or to stop playing in her pool. It took 4 or 5 times before I did but even then I didn't realise that it was wrong. Eventually as an adult I gradually realised how wrong it was, and now it makes me feel sick, and he was convicted of voyeurism, but there was no real lightbulb moment for me.

The same applies to the man I now know was a paedophile (convicted) who used to tickle my excessively. It made me uncomfortable and I hated it but I don't remember it ever occurring to me that it was wrong.

I don't know why people think that children's reactions to abuse must be so clear cut.

I can barely remember my abuse. In fact, I have almost no memories of the years surrounding it at all. I look at old photos and barely remember those events happening. It comes to me in snapshots, little moments. If I tried to give a factual account of it and then was repeatedly questioned about it there would probably be small inconsistencies here and there.

This is what trauma does to your brain. The reactions we expect come from TV and film, not from real life. Safechuck is the most believable victim I’ve ever heard speak because everything he says is somethinb I’ve thought myself. He doesn’t under or over explain. He recounts details you’d never magic out of thin air. If he were putting on a show, he’d react as doubters expect him to react - his trauma is real and therefore doesn’t conform to expectations

Theres not a single doubt in my mind about it being 100% true.

Me neither sink girl
I believe him 100% and I hope he takes some comfort in the support of people who are believing him, when others are calling him a liar

The reason MJ used a high voice was to create a persona - the man child

Savile created a persona an eccentric who wore awful clothes and smoked cigars and lived for charity

It keeps our attention away from what they are doing both

Both used some of the same grooming techniques

Yes I believe he created a persona, and if you consider that he was a paedophile then his behaviours don't seem that weird after all. They become quite plausible - as you would expect a paedophile to behave. Like setting up Neverland. It wasn't a Peter Pan thing after all - it was a grooming camp.

Only just watched this.
I believe mj is guilty 100%.
It's just shocking, totally shocking and hopefully this have given us insight into how groomers operate.

However I don't know if anyone heard on the radio a debate and someone said that the mother couldn't have danced and cried at his death (as he couldn't hurt children anymore) because her son didn't tell her until much later? Is that true?

She said in the documentary that she didn't believe Jordy but once the second boy made allegations she started to question everything. She asked Jimmy if he had been abused and he denied it at the time so she accepted that, it doesn't mean that she didn't believe others weren't abused.

I totally agree, I hope that this documentary helps parents in future to spot red flags. Those poor men. What they went through. So so sad.

When I was 8 I was in the Brownies. We were doing a nature tail in the local park. We’d been split into small groups. My cousin was in a different group to me. A man approached us by the frog ponds and asked up to pose for some photos-we were happy to oblige. He asked up to do handstands (my skirt fell exposing my knickers). He asked us to sit on concrete posts. He took lots of photos and then vanished.

When we met back up with the Brownie leader we learned that he’d approached the other groups for photos and they’d all said no and reported back to Brown Owl my cousin included.

I remember feeling so embarrassed that I hadn’t realised it was a situation that I should have said no to. That he was one of the ‘strangers’ we’d been told about. My cousin hadn’t been as stupid as me. I initially lied to my parents and said that I’d said no too. I blamed myself. This was just photos!

There are still now, to this day, inconsistencies between the what was said in the documentary and the Oprah interview.

If I had to recount all my experiences, there would be inconsistencies. But I'm not lying. They happened. I just might not have all the exact details, and I might trip up over some. Do you know how hard it is to recount stuff that your brain doesn't want to accept/entertain/believe?

However I don't know if anyone heard on the radio a debate and someone said that the mother couldn't have danced and cried at his death (as he couldn't hurt children anymore) because her son didn't tell her until much later? Is that true?

This came out with the second trial. Wade testified, but James did not. He was asked to, but he said no. MJ became angry. His mother asked him about it, James replied that MJ was a bad man, but he didn't want to talk about it, and swore her not to say anything. So it was unspoken, but she 'knew' then.

So she was happy when he died.

The other mother didn't know.

Yep MJ did a great job in conning us with all this Peter Pan bollocks.
I read an article years and years ago from a former vocal coach of his stating that his 'child like ' voice was a complete act.
I also read that Debbie Rowe was contracted to have 2 children close together. That was before she did conceive the children. The article was spot on.

What happened to Debbie Rowe and Lisa Marie Presley?

Lisa Marie married someone else I think.

From a quick google, Debbie Rowe got access to her chn with MJ after his death and had a breast cancer diagnosis a few years ago.

I would assume that Debbie Rowe is under some sort of lifetime clause that she can never speak out otherwise the mj estate would sue. But that's just my guess.
Probably the same with Lisa Marie who knows?

God poor women. Hope DR has some contact with her children, what a dark mess the whole situation is.