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[MrsWho]

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And I'm not going to post spoilers on here either - it's just not really fair to post things which aren't just outright guesses on a forum without spoiler tags.

I've done oblique clues before now on the Ashes to Ashes thread, but I'm not quite sure how I could obliquely reference the things I've heard without giving it away entirely.

Unless I posted one random word like 'suit' or 'fish' and there's not much point in that. (Those weren't actual oblique clues, btw)

(or maybe they were... mowahahaha)

lol
please no spoilers. i love dr who too much for spoilers

She said the last thing he'd done from her point of view was to take her to see some singing towers and he'd had a haircut and blubbed. But we know that she regularly meets him out of sequence (hence her trying to place where he was on their timeline when she arrived at the Library). He could have died the first time they met, say.

I don't think that necessarily is it, mind you.

Yeah. It would certainly tick all the boxes of sad and significant. I'm going to file it as a possible.

But, Oh, I don't, I'm not keen for a couple of reasons - it's a bit limiting in terms of the whole Doctor Who story. One of the things that drives me nuts about some of the Rose stuff is the sense from some people that they couldn't imagine a life beyond that.

If the Doctor knows he only reveals his name at death, then he knows she's seen him die, and it's all a bit stunted. I'd like there to a be bit more ambiguity about it from his perspective; it's a big enough dramatic kick in the balls to have seen your wife die before you've even met her.

The other thing is that I honestly don't think it fits with Alex Kingston's performance. I thought she was fantastic, and bounced off Tennant really well, but you damn well know that if they ever re-introduce River, you're going to see the pain of his memories clearly. I suppose you could make a case for it from the bit when she doesn't let him read the diary, but I'm not convinced.

Ah, geeky pendantry. Nothing like it.

Where can I watch repeats?

It's repeated on Friday on BB3, but on iPlayer anytime!

I don't think the Doctor revealed his name to River as he was dying. You have to believe the Doctor is invincible really. Also River said he'd not regenerate this time and that's why she took his place in the library, yet if he died then she couldn't have seen him die later, but then again timey wimey stuff maybe time was written like that all along. She also said that all the skies would darken if he ever believed that everybody dies, again not concrete evidence but a nod in the not dying direction I think.
I have a theory that it's something to do with her being kept in a computer and the Galifrey computer (non-geek again as can't think what it's called).

We V+ Dr Who so only watched it last night.
Now I know I'm blonde (no offence to other blondes) but I soooo didn't get what it what so ever.

The Matrix, lollipop?
Of course, the matrix would have been destroyed along with Gallifrey - when the Doctor became President of the Time Lords, he became part of the Matrix, but after the events of the Invasion of time, the knowledge of it was taken away from him by Cardinal Borusa. Of course, it could still actually be there in his mind, but he can't access it... who knows?

eh?

I may only dip my toe in for fear of understanding too much

I have to date never watched an episode through and only glimpsed two or three. The ideas in them are better than the actual shows

i Player monkeytrousers try that

So you geeks the Vashda Nerada..... How come if they live on flesh, they were perfectly willing to let a load of food go free? Are they like vegetarians who are perfectly happy living on lentils but can't resist a bacon sarnie if they smell it? Or are they like a territorial savage mutt who will only have your leg off if you stray onto its patch?

I wondered that too!

I sometimes think I analyse DW episodes far too much (especially S Moffat ones - they can tie your head in knots).

Must keep repeating 'It's a programme for children ...it's a programme for children...'

... but it's not anymore. There is something for all the family, which is what makes it such good family entertainment.

"Weapns on Mass Dsitrcution deployed to go off in 45 seconds"..... don't tell me that was aimed at the kids?!

That's true but I don't think the plotlines are written with adults in mind because an adult could easily pick holes in them (and sadly my DH frequently does....).

For e.g. Steve Moffat explained the plot in 'Blink' by the 'Timey Wimey' phrase i.e. time is odd, it obeys no laws, there's no logic therefore don't try to understand it! Which is fine for a child but for an adult (well for me anyway) I want to work out the logic of that story but I suspect there is no logic (IYSWIM) which is why my head is tied in knots!

Wanders off to untie head

I think my dh would disagree! He just loves Docotr Who and the long convoluted story arcs ... but thenm maybe he is just a kid at heart!

Manictigger, the reason presented in the plot for the Vashta Nerada letting everyone have a day to get off the planet was because they tried to swarm the Doctor and he told them to look him up in the library somehow, and they were scared or intimidated by what they'd found.

There's a number of ways of looking at that. Either a) it's another layer to the 'mythology' of the Doctor, building up his legend as the Oncoming Storm.

Or b) it could be that the Vashta Nerada are fearsomely intelligent micro-creatures that can learn at a breath-taking speed.

Or c) you could see it as a bit of a pants hole in the plot, big enough to get the 'everybody lives' ending through.

Take your pick. I thought it was disappointing and pretty much showed that Moffat had painted himself into a corner with the monster and had a bit of a lapse of imagination when it came to dispatching it. But with the quality of the rest of it, I'm quite happy to overlook it and let my fangirl brain pick b) and swallow a whole glass of retcon to get it to fit right.

But one of the reasons SM's are better is that he does just explain things in terms of "timey wimey stuff" and so forth. Some of the other writers feel they have to bring in detailed scientific explanations which are so rubbish I wind up shouting at the television screen.

Just watched it again, and I can't quite get over how perfect the performances were at the 'death' scene, from all four of the people involved. Alex Kingston's delivery of her last 'spoilers' was just beautiful, and I'm still struggling with a lump in the throat about Catherine Tate's anguished scream of 'I'll find you!'

I'm going off to write some fic now, because I'm a great big soppy girl.

Pand L, I agree, I think the SM episodes are good (apart from scaring the shite out of you in a good way) because they force you to think. However, I still think the fact that the programme is primarily made for children means that compromises have to be made in the storylines.

But that doesn't make DW any less brilliant. And any programme that the family can watch together without anyone getting bored gets my vote.

Kay, I agree, I think the VN were an enemy that could have been 'eliminated' rather than pacified but I guess the point is that they were in the library through no fault of their own therefore they had a right to stay there (providing they learnt a few common manners, like not eating everyone they met). Also, the fact that they're still out there in shadows and sunbeams makes it more creepy I think...

but she doesnt does she? she gives up sooo easily.
and he is going to spend the rest of his life, knowing hemissed her.......
sob...

But she knew nothing about him really did she because she only spent literally minutes with him?

He reminded me of Lee Evans so I think she had a lucky escape (I'm sure LE is lovely but he would rapidly drive me to commit violence on either him or myself)

Oh, I know, she's so silly! Keeps missing all these important things. Rose on the monitor in The Poison Sky, Lee on the teleporter trying to say her name... Hmm, wonder if that's going to be a significant trait at some point? ponders

OK Dr Who fans..... I'm a bit confused.

Didn't BBC advertise a trailer that Rose came back, and waffled something about the darkness and Donna's Grandad was watching the stars 'go out' Have I missed an episode????

No, confusingly that was the "rest of the series" trailer so all that is still to come.