Making a murderer

[dragonflyinn10]

For those who watched making a murderer part 2 is on Netflix now x

If it was a family computer, how did they know they were Bobby's images and not the step dads or Brendans?

Also, I'm confused about how the ex boyfriend came to be on the scene... But if Bobby did it, it absolutely makes sense that he would be worried about Steven knowing he dashed after Theresa... and therefore a good motive to frame Steven. Plus if he lived across the yard he would have had very easy access to Steve's trailer for DNA to set the story up.

Kathrine Zellner. What a woman. So articulate. So calm.

How on earth can the courts keep denying retrials of SA and the pardon of BD? The evidence that KZ has found is mind blowing. I literally binge watched the whole second series once it got going.

SA's parents are so frail. It was difficult to watch them.

If it was a family computer, how did they know they were Bobby's images and not the step dads or Brendans?

I wondered that. Maybe the times of the internet searches match up with times when only Bobby was in the property - when Brendan was at school and the stepdad at work (? did/does he have a job?)

What did you think about Laura's (Brendan's lawyer) performance at the en banc hearing? She clearly did her best and put everything into it, but I felt she didn't strike the right tone with some of the judges. She came across as a bit too combative and defensive. I am just sorry we never got to see Kathleen in action in court, she was truly awesome. Feel like all these first class lawyers have their work cut out dealing with second rate judges and ridiculous process and legislation!

I agree that I don't think Brendan's lawyer was that good unfortunately. I agree she was combative but also that she just didn't get her point across well in several situations. The guy she was up against was very clear but I thought she was a bit waffled.

I felt that the en banc group, well the men, gave Laura a very hard time and it rattled her.

Kathleen Zellner has a website:
www.kathleentzellner.com

Which Avery men, and what level of sexual offence?

Yes agree re Brendan's lawyer that she didn't get her points across well and also she didn't seem to understand the psychology of how to get the judges on side. It was actually one of the female judges that gave her the hardest time and yes it rattled her.

I’m listening to the podcast mentioned above. I highly recommend it. I have only seen s1 but didn’t at any time think he was innocent.

I watched this and think it's a con on KZ part she keeps going on about facts, makes huge sweeping statements without backing them up and sweeps the viewer along on a fake premise. SA is guilty as fuck. He was stalking TH he made numerous calls to her the last using *67 to disguise his number as she was screening him. He made an appointment with her under Barb's name was the last person to see her alive took his first ever afternoon sickie straight after said appointment. Has a serious history of violence and sexual assaults. He spent several hours cleaning a 3 metre Square area of his garage with BD that same day had a huge fire he lied about that burnt from the afternoon til the early hours. KZ outright lied about that in the documentary. Bones were found both in the fire pit and collected nearby. TH electronics: her camera phone were never found but the remains were found burnt on SA property. BD was interviewed by the police because his cousin Kayla told the school counselor he hasn't stopped crying since the night (on the 31st of the 10th which is when TH went missing). BD lost 40lbs bet that night and early Feb when he interviewed. he really should have been a company but his mother was just outside the Roman could have chosen to be in with him what are the police did not like they lead him repeated investigations down there did nothing wrong in that interview and Brendan confessed piece by Piece to helping dispose of the body to being there toseeing her tied up, some of the things he said about the way she breathes while she was being stabbed a far too visceral to be made up.

*Outside the room and

The police fed Brendan the facts of the case so they could use it as a confession. Even if he did do it, the confession is not valid. He was coerced and quite clearly mentally deficient in some way. The fact they have him in prison disgusts me.

If Steven did kill her, and I’m open either way but do swing more towards innocent, and her phone was burnt on the premises, how did she make phone calls from further away and at a later time, then also writing down the appointment in a planner that was found her her house?

some of the things he said about the way she breathes while she was being stabbed a far too visceral to be made up.

He said at the trial that he got the gory details from a book titled Kiss The Girls.

As far as I am aware he did not supply off his own back one direct fact about the actual crime that can be verified.

He either confirmed points or details that were suggested to him first, or he gave details that cannot be proven to have transpired in this crime. Or they were known to be false. In which case they kept asking hm or feeding him until he had changed his story to comply with the known detail or fact.

The phone calls were made from her home not from the car that's why the planner was at her house and the ex boyfriend got it from there. If you listen to the podcast rebutting a Murderer and read some of the court reports you'll get a much more honest picture than the series gives.

As for BD he gave them several facts they didn't know. They couldn't work out why TH blood was in the boot if the car if she died in the garage and her poor body was burnt on the fire. All facts verified by forensics. BD told them that he and SA put her body in the boot drive her to the pond on the quarry to dump her but the pond was too low so they drove back and started the fire. That's why the sniffer dogs went to the quarry. BD confession tied in all the facts that the forensics proved. I started out doubtful about SA and convinced BD was innocent but the more I read it's totally clear that SA raped and murdered TH and BD was around while she was still alive and helped clean up after she was killed. If you want to feel sorry for anyone pity the Halbach family who keep having to relive thus so Netflix can boost viewing figures don't pity a pair of raping murdering arseholes.

I'd like to listen to RaM but the episodes don't seem to want to play for me. Well, I'd like to see exactly how that detail came out rather than someone just reporting it in a podcast which is just as open to personal spin as the show it.

Akso, did Brendan off his own back explain the bonmes they found there?

InfiniteSheldon I will look into the podcast and take a listen. I genuinely enjoy the case (awful phrasing) so do look at information from many view points. I do feel sorry for the Halbach family but, when someone’s guilt is in question I think we do have to look into things and question them even if that causes stress. Basically, someone is always going to find this hard but when someone could be imprisoned wrongly, it needs looking into. Think of all the cases that are eventually solved, I’m sure opening them up again must have been hard for many people but surely the truth is worth that? There is some doubt for me and others and surely you shouldn’t be convicted when there is any doubt?

Been watching this after bedtime, the second series doesn't hold a candle to the first. It's too staged, feels forced, and as it's not about the trial like the first series was, it's lost its raw edge and just feels like a big budget documentary.

That being said, I am sticking to my guns and believe both are innocent; Brendan coerced into his statement, and Steven framed for something he didn't do.

Can't find the 'Serial' episodes on iPhone 'Podcasts' - can someone direct me to what the episodes are called?

Oh I do agree if there is any chance the jury, who heard all the evidence, was wrong all avenues should be explored. But a totally one sided television program that tells outright lies and doesn't mention any of the significant bits of evidence that condemned BA and SA isn't a reason to retry a case that every court and judge whose seen that evidence believes the convictions were sound.

What lies? Genuinely asking. Of course the documentary comes across as one sided. When the other side doesn’t want to get involved I can see how it happens.

The fire only being four hours when it was seen burning til the early hours
The fire not having the black remains a tire burning would have left, it did
Only two tires so not enough to burn a body, the remains of more than six tires were found
The cell towers pinging and showing TH was driving when actually it the same towers that ping when she was at home where she filled in and left her journal.
The time line that supposedly puts her in the car, or answering her phone which is not explained in the documentary as the facts don't support KZ 'theory'
That BD gave the police huge amounts of information only someone involved in the crime could have known the documentary repeatedly lies and says he was convicted on the confession alone.
The DNA evidence, the documentary helpfully ignores the wealth of forensics tieing SA to the murder and the clean up.
Lying by omission:
the stalking of TH by SA,
SA not turning up for work the afternoon she disappeared; remember he's the last person to see her alive and he has never, not once, not gone back to work after lunch.
SA criminal record of violence and abuse to women included two underage girls
Finding TH electronics Inc the burnt remains of her phone and palm pilot in SA burn bin
TH bones burnt fused with the tire remains in the fire SA and BD were seen tending the night she disappeared
Further bones found with the electronic remains that had been burned twice
That BD has such a low IQ he doesn't understand what's happening in the interview, he was in main stream schooling and his IQ at 81\83 whike low is s only the very very bottom of average. This is the most often repeated lie. He was fully mirandised was repeatedly asked if he wanted his lawyer or his mum in. Barb was sitting less than ten feet away in the next room.
There's more, it's all in the court records but it's not such great telly as horrible corrupt police Vs poor low IQ local now is it?

That's off the top of my head so just one more: Bobby responsible for the porn on the computer. Actually it could have been BD there's no proof it was Bobby. It was that sweeping statement coupled with the cell phone calls that started me really doubting KZ she just never backed up her 'unbelivable new evidence' with actual facts it was all ridiculous posturing and pseudo science.

Hmm I seem to have lost all the editing and paragraphs!