Making a murderer

[dragonflyinn10]

For those who watched making a murderer part 2 is on Netflix now x

We finished watching this last night. I enjoyed watching both series hugely but now that they're over I just feel incredibly sad and depressed. The state of Wisconsin clearly has so much to lose (million-dollar law suit x 2) if Steven Avery was ever found innocent, how is it possible he will ever be freed? And Brendan is collateral damage in all of this. Despite the amazing Kathleen - who is an absolute legend, my god, she's fabulous - if the state is so determined to ignore the evidence and deny these men any chance at proving their innocence, what hope do they have?

Thank god for the film-makers, and for Brendan's amazing lawyers, and for Kathleen Zellner. Even if Steven and Brendan are never released, they will never be forgotten and at least a compelling case for their innocence has been made (very) public.

Also binged this this weekend, compulsive viewing and Kathleen is great! Look at her Twitter feed, she pulls no punches over what she thinks of Kratz!
The only bit that didn't quite ring true for me was the blood in the sink bit? I got confused as to who was supposed to have collected that, where did they get the syringe thing from and surely it would be dry blood? If you cut yourself in a sink wouldn't you run the tap and rinse your hand under it?

Best scene for me, Kratz at Crimecon, FFS does he not recognise the irony of that? Worst was seeing Pa Avery cry, my heart broke for him

Yes - the blood in the sink was the only bit that I thought sounded quite far fetched... I saw somewhere that Kathleen thinks it was someone who knew the cut had opened up and went to Steven's trailer expressly to collect blood. If that's the case, they got extremely lucky to find enough liquid blood to draw into a syringe... To me, it makes more sense that someone broke in to get some DNA evidence to plant (a hair or suchlike) and got lucky when they saw the blood in the sink???
But then, this case is far fetched however you look at it!
It made me feel deeply sad too - so many lives utterly ruined! Like a PP said, Brendan's mum looks like a broken woman - I found it really shocking to see how much she has aged since the series 1 footage. I can't even imagine what she must have gone through/is still going through.

The only bit that didn't quite ring true for me was the blood in the sink bit?

They didn’t make any assessments about who might have done it, but I have some theories.

There’s a few things: firstly, Steven has been saying that the blood in the car must have been taken from his bathroom right from the start, which makes him sound crazy. However, it seems like the evidence could absolutely point to that.

The blood flakes on the carpet were the main thing, especially with the absence of actual blood stains on the carpet. How did they get there, if not from a dried blood source?

Secondly, as soon as I saw the blood by the ignition, I said to my DH that it looked like it had been applied with a cotton bud. It would absolutely make sense to me that someone had collected the blood with a cotton bud or swab and applied. As for a syringe, it may not have been a syringe - an eye dropper or similar, which many people have in their bathrooms? Do they have eye wash kits on site, being a salvage yard etc?

My personal theory at this point is that someone went into the trailer to get some of his belongings or hair to plant and got lucky when they stumbled across the blood.

My suspicion is that this case is almost impossible to unravel because multiple people framed Avery without knowledge of the other.

E.g. whoever killed Halbach left the car there, and possibly also planted the blood in the car. Her ex found the car conducting an unauthorised search, called the police - Colborn went over there, called in the plates and then realised what he’s done. Her ex takes her day planner from the car at this point, and they later send someone else back to look for it.

The police believe Avery has done it, but they don’t have enough evidence so they plant some more, unaware that whoever killed her has already done some of the framing.

There are a few things I can’t get my head round. For example, when they eventually find the key after days of searching, they take a photo of it - this is a salvage yard, I bet there are car keys everywhere but they know this is “the key”, yet they don’t take a photo of the bones in the pit? Bullshit.

You are totally right about the key, how did they know straight away that is was the key to her car, as you say it wasn't the most organised of places so there would be keys everywhere.

I also found it very interesting that they may have used her chapstick to transfer dna (but no blood) to the bullet. Wonder if they were able to test that “waxy substance” that was also on it? 🤔

I suspect the key was left in the car, was found by the ex when they discovered the car and given to Colburn - perhaps he’d intended to plant it all the way through the search but it took days to get a chance as he wasn’t left alone?

Also, something I think they didn’t focus on much this season was the original false rape conviction. They’re talking about it like it was a mistaken false conviction, but it seems to me that they absolutely set out to frame Avery then? The question is why. It’s very possible (likely?) that they have a bigger reason than the lawsuit for framing Avery, and it goes back nearly 3 decades. I just don’t know what it is.

Oh, and... multiple Avery men (particularly Steven’s brothers) have a history of sexual offences. It’s shocking to me that they weren’t properly investigated, but as in my theory above, I suspect whoever killed her found and planted that blood (which is why it’s done so badly) and therefore the police had to run with it.

What do you all think of this "brain fingerprinting" thing. I was a bit hmmmmm about that and thought the guy doing it was a bit suspect. My first thought was that Kathleen had made it up but had convinced Steven of it's validity to see if he would go ahead with it whilst believing it might implicate him but no, seems she thinks it's real?

Wow.... just binge watched the entire 20 episodes in 4 days!!!

I'm amazed that Kathleen has all this evidence, the most telling being (for me) Teresa's daily planner being in possession of her housemate! How?

Housemate or ex, not sure which one now, either way, puts them in the spotlight

Interesting how the 3 way convo with Steven/barb/Scott. Scott was very abusive. Overly so...

Blood in the trailer:
probably stumbled on by police and planted in car. Kathleen didn't say that but said that that police or CSI's would carry swabs, baggies and pipettes as part of their usual kit.
Car Move and planner:
they got the ex boyfriend to move car and direct the searchers to it, probably convinced him that they knew it was Avery that did it. He probably pocketed the planner then and brought back to TH's house were it was "found" by him and room-mate, not realizing it was incriminating because of the timing of the scribbled notes on it.

i e binged watched all 20 too.
kathleen is awesome!!!! i don't have a clue who did it but i was so gutted that steven and brandan were still locked up 😩

Just finished binge watching series 2, had been reading here while watching. For once I am grateful of a spoiler, so knew not to get hopes up for Brendan. Heartbreaking watching the parents, especially Steven's.

i really feel for Dolores and her husband....but less so for Brendans parents, his step dad....theres something "off" about him. wondering if he's involved now.

the room mate and ex....could it be something happened there. I personally think there lies the answers. Teresas brothers also got me wondering.

I was still unsure about any involvement with Brendan,but i do 100% believe Steven is innocent

just read a little update regarding Steven. He says most days are ok, unless he hears a country song then he feels a bit sad!

thats heartbreaking

I don't think that there's a chance that Brendan is guilty, there's no way he's that good an actor and has been able to maintain the act for so long.

I've just finished watching series 2 and I still believe these two men are innocent. I think Steven was set up to be framed for the murder and Brendan is just collateral damage. But my issue here is with the brother, Bobby. Why, if he had all that stuff on his computer (kiddie pictures, beastiality, pictures of dead girls, underage paedophile pictures) why is he not being charged with that? Surely that's a crime within itself?

I’m up to episode 7 watching 8 tonight, am convinced these two are innocent in this murder, feel so sad for Dolores and Stevens dad, very hard to watch, poor Dolores just seems to be so sad all the time. Kathleen is an amazing woman, fascinated by her work and determination..... hoping she see’s this case to the end.

InConstantNeedOfAGin The same thing pisses me off, so much. Surely this guy is a danger and if he isn’t he has contributed to child suffering by searching for such pictures. But for the sake of money because of their own stupidity, the state is willing to let that one slide to frame a completely innocent person. It’s a joke and makes them even more suspicious. Surely as an officer finding something like that would make you feel sick, you wouldn’t be offering deals to someone who is willing to look at such awful pictures.

Just finished S2 also.
So sad for Stevens Mum & Dad. They just seem so broken.

Sorry if already mentioned but during the 7th circuit court hearing why didn't the lawyer mention that Brendan got the grisly details he supplied in the interview from a book? The judge pointed out that they must have come from somewhere, whether memory or imagination, and she said nothing.

In series 1 it showed him testifying that he got the details from a book called Kiss The Girls so surely someone could just read the book and if they could point to the similarities between the descriptions of the violence in the book, and Brendan's details, then that would have helped him?

I think both men are innocent and in both cases there is very reasonable doubt. I do think at some future point they will both be freed and the convictions quashed. Maybe I am naive but surely the system is not that cruel that this won't one day happen?

Has anyone listened to the podcast rebutting a murderer? Made by a reporter who covered the case and apparently argues against points made in the documentary.

I've just finished. I really thought that the Supreme Court would hear Brendan's case. Surely though, if Kathleen manages to prove without doubt that either Steven didn't do it, or Bobby did it, then Brendan's case would collapse as the only thing that is case rests on is his false confession.

I think it's a terrible injustice and I do believe they are innocent and Steven has been framed. Every piece of evidence that Kathleen has collected points to his innocence.

I can't believe that the series is over.

And poor Brendan. I thought I remembered reading about him being released in the news so the end was a shock.-

Similar here. I remember a celebratory thread on Chat about Brendan so was surprised by the ending. Was expecting homecoming scenes when I first started watching.

The very last resort is a pardon. If all else fails maybe they can pursue that. But hopefully it won't come to that and due process sorts this out..

lukewarm I like a podcast, so will listen to that.
Have any of you listened to the Serial podcasts about the first series? The experts on that picked apart all the evidence from the series and felt that Steven was probably guilty. It's a brilliant series and they really made me question my own thoughts about his innocence. I wonder if they'll do another series now? I'd be really interested to hear if they've changed their minds.