Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

NopeNi

You nailed it.

Italiangreyhound is, I believe, quite genuine in her desire to understand and empathise.

It frustrates me, because I see her being manipulated, but I don't condemn her for her stance.

PennyArcade

When a woman goes through a tragic event such as this they look to other women for support. Other women can not only sympathise but they can empathise. They may not have suffered this trauma but they know it could be a possibility for them and will know how it will feel if it happens to them.

That has never happened to me, but like almost every woman, I know women for whom it has.

There is no doubt that this kind of experience produces a visceral, profound reaction in other women. Something primeval which is shockingly unexpected when it's not your own personal experience.

And, you are quite right, I can't imagine a woman comparing it to any other loss. It would never occur to them. Ever.

My best friend went through a late pregnancy termination because her baby died.

She had tried to get pregnant for such a long time. She called me from the hospital when she was told the news and - this was about 20 years ago now - I can still remember her anguished howling when I picked up the phone.

I can't even begin to begin to understand her pain and suffering. I have never lost a child so i can't say 'I know how you feel' just as anyone who has their parents can't tell me they know how I feel to have lost mine.

WDS again.

Penny, I hope you know that there are many, many more women here who genuinely empathise, than there are "women" who are trying to make it all about eliciting their own sympathy. I hope you are not affected by that and that to you, the negativity from one person is outweighed by the support from others. Those of us who could do, but have not, experienced such a loss know damn well that nothing can compare to it, none the less we feel your pain on a visceral level

BeyondViscious

Thank you. Yes, I have found women always sympathise and empathise with other women's trauma, especially when it involves women's bodies and babies.

It just goes to prove that those who go all out to let everyone know they "feel like a woman" don't have the feelings of a woman.

Thank you very much to all the women who have shown support and empathy and I feel so sorry for all the women who have gone through heartache and loss, simply for being born a woman 💐

Penny

I've never had the urge to have kids, so I'm not going to presume to say I know how you feel. But I'm so, so sorry.

Datun thank you for not doubting my motives.

@Datun comment above

@PennyArcade I'm sorry you were tricked into revealing that about yourself

some wanted to send the discussion off topic and start 'comparing' a transgender woman with a biological one

Well, yes. Of course we compare. You cannot day you are something then when compared you quite clearly aren’t. That’s the point. The stand I take is that trans women can never and will never be women. That’s a fact, based on biology and the way society treats and views us. If you haven’t experienced any of those things then you aren’t a woman.

To clarify, you may not experience everything, but as a woman you will have experienced something that no man will.

I have no idea what it feels like to be kicked in the balls. I don't pretend to.

From observation - it hurts. A lot.

So Jane aka Victoria was a troll who was just on here to bait us. That's made me so angry. Mostly angry for those like Penny who gave personal information about themselves when tricked into doing so.
I don't for one believe that Jane/Victoria has colleagues with the police that they were going to report us to. I think this is actually more likely a result of their mental health difficulties and personality disorder. Regardless, I am angry that someone has come on here to trick us and extract information to then try and use against us.

Victoria's post has been deleted so I have no idea what the link is between Victoria and Jane.

It comes as no surprise that Jane was a troll.

Wtf was said?

I took screenshots but suspect they'll be deleted.

Thank you

Smh, some people are awful.

Just a nut job then... There's a surprise... Its a shame "Jane" has to go to such lengths in an attempt to make women see that men are also women.

Nobody buys it. Hey ho 🤷

She says she was on a whind up, but the post seems to say that she is in fact a transwomen.

I think she's just back tracking again. Her motive makes no sense. She said things to play on women's fears about transwomen, then watch women get annoyed by the comments. What's the point in that. It would make more sense if she said reasonable things to see if she got a transphobic reaction.

It's complete nonsense. Jane/Victoria is trying to cover their arse again.

But doesn't really matter. Either Jane is a horrible wind up merchant taking delight in upsetting women, or they're not a wind up merchant, but can't help upsetting women in any case.

Either way, it will never cease to amaze me that all you have to do is let these people talk.

And occasionally disagree. Because that's what does it.

Wow, well that was a bit if a waste of time then!

An opportunity for honest engagement lost! I sometimes change identifying details but I don't lie in my opinions or engagement.

I see mumsmet as one safe place where I can truly engage. So someone coming on to, I don't know, get a rise out of people, seems odd. And on such an important and sensitive topic.

Very strange behaviour.

"And occasionally disagree. Because that's what does it." Indeed it does.

Learning to communicate even when we do disagree is so key!