Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

Yes it had a mermaid in it within the first five minutes.

Young lad likes pink sparkly things and would rather wet himself than use the boys' toilet at school.

It did. Along with the pink sparkles there was a mermaid necklace and a real mermaid. The advertising is not subtle

Yeah so far so completely what I thought it would be. Propaganda.

Well, they got the suicide attempt in nice and early. Obviously an essential part of being trans

Seriously- they filmed a child attempting suicide?

Oh! That is so sad!

It is going to be a roller coaster of a watch if they have suicide in it already !!!!

I like Anna Friel. I hope is doesn't damage her career.

The dramatist has a good reputation too, so I hear.

What a load of manipulative crap.

I gave up after he was listening at the parent's bedroom door, after all the tickling stuff.

Not sure what I think about it really. It was a bit dull and not what I would usually watch.

It was a v realistic portrayal of a family coming to terms with their child's gender dysphoria. Vast majority of public feedback has been positive.

The suicide attempt just came across as a child being extremely manipulative because he didn’t get his own way, it seemed to be related to the parents not getting back together / mum going in a date rather than anything to do with being trans.

Spanna what a load of bollocks. It infuriates me that this stuff is being normalised.

PS I have a child going through a totally normal hatred of puberty and change who sees the trans thing as some kind of magic bullet.

My notes on the first episode:

First part of #Butterfly:
Only boys like football
Only boys can be astronauts
Product placement for #Mermaids
Dysfunctional family
Girls wear pink tops and skirt and like posing in front of mirrors
Girls do not wear trousers
Only girls allowed to wear studs at school
Max wants family reunited
Max doesn't allow mum to kiss him on first day of secondary school but older daughter does
Max wets pants because "scared" of using toilet
Max using emotional blackmail to access girls toilets, toilet scene shows toilets to be effectively "gender neutral" i.e. toilet block with boys and girls loos opposite each other with open urinal in front of boys in full sight of girls toilets??
Max upset that mum is going out on date with another man, so slashes wrists to prevent it happening - the epitome of emotional blackmail and manipulation to try to reunite mum and dad
One has to question why daughter asking if mum will have sex with new guy on first date - totally dysfunctional family. Assume suicide attempt associated with dysfunctional family not "trans" status
Max saying that wrist slashing "calmed him down" - using suicide attempt to try attention to family dysfunction as Max obviously didn't want mum to date another man. This speak volumes about family disunity not "trans ID"
Mum and dad try to get back together, Max spying to ensure they are sharing the same bedroom. Max seem watching "I am Jazz" on youtube - social contagion angle?
Question - why is Max hanging around mum and dads bedroom ensuring they are having sexual relations - this is sick
Basically telling kids that if you want your mum and dad to get back together you have to slash your wrists - this cannot go unchallenged - it is manipulative in the extreme

It was a v realistic portrayal of a family coming to terms with their child's gender dysphoria. Vast majority of public feedback has been positive

I agree. There were some things that weren't true to life like an understanding GP who knew what to do (gold dust) and the timeline of Maxine's coming out has to be condensed because we're not gonna sit for 6 months with Anna Friel asking "are you sure?" every week. Over all, I thought it was brilliant and not sensationalist and very very accurate in terms of how families deal with a child with gender dysphoria.

It came across to me very badly, very stereotypical and sensationalist.

If any children watching it were suffering from gender dysphoria they would probably be quite traumatized by it all.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/teen-transgender-drama-butterfly-inflates-suicide-risk-9ng3z22mv

"The NHS’s only gender clinic for children and teenagers has criticised a new ITV drama that shows a transgender 11-year-old trying to commit suicide as “not helpful,” saying it “would be very unusual” for a child of that age to attempt suicide."

Of course children of all ages might attempt suicide but usually the television and media is very careful about how they portray suicide or write about it.

The response of the parents seemed to be mum - you can wear girlie stuff at home, dad - don't you dare even talk about it, sister - lets just go with it. Where was the person saying hand on, enjoying dancing doesn't make you female.

I don't have statistics to hand but the fastest growing demographic in transgender situations for children, as far as I am aware, is girls who think they are boys/want to be boys, and want to bind their breasts etc. I wonder if this programme is going to address this aspect of transgender 'issues'.

It was a v realistic portrayal of a family coming to terms with their child's gender dysphoria.

I think it likely was a quite realistic portrayal of some families whose child questions their gender identity.

There was a lot going on there.
-rigid sex-based expectations. 'boy clothes' / 'girl clothes
--a boy who rejects 'masculine traits' and is told he is lesser for it.
-tension, anger, family breakdown,
-violence
-child feels responsibile and is told he is responsible for his Dad leaving.
-child wants his Dad's appoval and so tries to perform masculine stereotypes.
-innapropriate child/adult boundaries.
-parent's make decisions to do things previously rejected based on fear of what the child might do. Child self harms, Dad comes back, child demands parents sleep together, they do. Child's 'wants' prioritised above all else.
-this is a toxic family dynamic.
-The child needs robust, nuanced MH support.

• The family would benefit from robust and nuanced support.

-innacurate medical advice.

• homophobia in school and within family

Vast majority of public feedback has been positive

To the program, Mermaids Charity, trans-rights ideology or the proposals to enable gender self-id?

I saw all that too R0wantrees.

I still don't understand why it was done like that. Do TRAs genuinely not see those issues? Surely it would have been more effective propaganda if all of those factors weren't there - if child came from a happy home where he was loved and accepted for who he was?

It demonstrates a complete failure in relective critical thinking. Also how powerful confirmation bias is.

Lisa Muggeridge (Social Worker) comments:

'#Butterfly, Mermaids, and how easy it is to hide grooming in plain sight.'
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TwnUxlzUCNE

I worry that many children suffering from GD are actually in families whose rigid attitudes to gender mean they induce dysphoria by insisting boys like football but not pink etc, or whose parents simply impose the notion they are trans because they can't cope with an atypical child: I was hoping this programme would give me some insight into the difference between that and a child with genuine dysohoria, and I am afraid to say all it did was confirm my fears, if not exacerbate them. I really worry programmes like this will endanger children confused about things like whether girls can have short hair or gender stereotypes in books and adverts and on TV, especially ones in such stifling sexist and homophobic households.

Right. They were trying make the homophobia and stuff look like whynthe family wouldn't accept a transkid but it was probably why the kid was trans. Poor thing. Just be like boys can like stuff like this too. And if he still says hes a girl then get some counselling or something cos if he grows out of it thtas much better than lots of medicine and surgery right?

I am glad my DC are over the age of looking at stuff like this and believing it. They are too busy getting their lives together IRL, which is as it should be.

We have been though the wars though, with dropping out of uni, depression, not being able to get a job. My DF's daughter spent her time at uni going to an LGBT group for Asexuals. She crashed out of uni and it has taken her parents and enormous effort to support her through finishing her degree. Being asexual now seems to involve being stuck in your room on the computer and not going for a career
Another has struggled with her daughter with anorexia. She had no help, because when the DC is 16/17 they won't do anything unless the DC asks, like adult mental health.
Another friend has set up a group to offer counselling to 18-24s because there is so little to help them atm.
Someone DC1 did a course with transitioned Mto F.

It would have been interesting if this programme could have told us what transgender actually means. Surely it must mean something if it is necessary to have surgery, medication and sterilisation.
Instead it seems to perpetuate woolly thinking and stereotypes.

Didn't grandad say it was ok to be gay? But it kinda made it look like that was a bad thing.