Butterfly ITV

[Melamin]

Anyone daring to watch?

(Did it really have a mermaid in it?)

I have a detrans youngster who is very regretful in my family.

Jane your experiences have, I am very sure, been very difficult and I am happy you are at a place in life where you feel happy.

However, the programme 'Butterfly' was talking about how to react to a child presenting as possibly transgender. It was not clear how much Max/Maxine wanted to present at school as a girl. It's easier to look back and know something is/was the right path for you.

But what do you do when faced with a child who is/was very confused.

"What will you mothers do if your child is gay or a trans person like "Maxine"? The possible answer to that worries me. Would you accept the risk of your child committing suicide rather than embracing diversity?

How very sad!"

Please do not presume that us on this thread are not experiencing this. Those of us who are do love our children. Very much. I expect unconditionally - but it does not always mean we know what is right or best at any given moment.

As I say, it is easier to look back and say I did the right thing or I did the wrong thing. But looking into am uncertain future is harder.

Lots of young girls are currently dysphoric. They don't necessarily want a penis or to be a man. But they don't want to be a girl.

As a society we need to start asking why. And the reason may not be the same as your reasons for transitioning.

And unfortunately in my case that decision means that my relative has no sexual function and is now infertile at 20.
But hey it’s all fine and dandy according to some.

Mrskeats I am so sorry.

Jane

As someone who had my uterus removed as part of my cancer treatement, could you kindly stop pretending you are the same as an infertile woman?

Its not only a lie, its fucking rude, disrespectful and shows you know nothing of female biology.

"We are allowed to vote, to own property, to have a bank account, to sign many legal documents, and climb up the creasy promotional pole in enlightened companies"

Ahem. WE?!

Jane, there's a particular tone to your posts that reminds me of a particular transgender media person. One with a particular dislike of mn.

Weird.

Thanks italian
Sadly she won’t be the only one

You spent years living as a man JaneKent. You have no idea what it is like to grow up as s woman. Zero.

Do you have children?

Italiangreyhound I AGREE with all that you say.

I have made clear throughout my explanation of some of my life that it took years of medical and psychological assessment before I could fully, legally, transition. As I stated it all started at about the age of 4 years, and that is not uncommon throughout the transgender community. In my day there is no way my parents could have known what to do, as no specialists existed in that area, and even if I had been brave enough to speak out about my feelings, which of course I could in NO WAY understand, no one could have done anything for me. Even the 'outing' of April Ashley in 1960 could have assisted my plight.

Today there is much help and assistance for any parent who suspects their child has psychological problems; that would be the first logical thoughts of the parents. You are right about "reflection" and looking back rather than forward. When I came out to my mum she was not surprised and stated "that explains a lot about your childhood!" Yes, there could always be mistakes made in identifying Gender Dysphoria when it could be another underlying issue, such as the 11 year old boy whose mother lost a girl baby, and he 'came out' claiming to be really a girl to satisfy his mother when in fact he was a very real boy!

But now, in 2018, many checks and balances are carried out on children who appear to be transgendered. Masny more specialists in the area of Gender are there at both NHS (Charing Cross for one) and private levels. I am sad about your relative Mrskeats, but that example should not colour your judgement about other patients, dissing the whole subject, and their genuine Gender Dysphoria that usually starts at an early age. The specialists of today recognise the errors of yesterday and the checks are very thorough. No one who claims to wake up thinking they are of the opposite gender will ever pass muster. Believe me, even in my time the consultations I had to go through were extreme!

I understand in 'the background' you are facing a dilemma of the type in the Butterfly story. I am trained to advise on these matters and would highly recommend (if you have not already done so) to approach your GP who should be able to access all the specialist assistance you require.

Yes, "Penis envy" is as old as time. But it is NOT usually an indication of Gender Dysphoria. That, as I have previously explained, goes a lot deeper and lasts far longer throughout the age groups 4-11 years before it starts to erupt in the mind as puberty kicks in, which for me was a disaster, but one I could not avoid although, thank God, the children of today can get the help during this time as in the "Butterfly" story.

Very sorry to hear of your plight Hyppolyta but do not criticise me, as yes a REAL women, from answering a previous post about women only being that if they have a uterus.

I have had family with cancer, but my condition was nothing to do with that, and never will be, and I cannot live a life as I did in the wrong body. It was KILLING me as much as cancer could have done. I have lost count as to the number of suicide attempts I made during my previous life. Do not begrudge me from now enjoying my female life because of your situation.

Ah the implied suicide threats unless we say you're a "real woman". Nice.

No OrchidInTheSun I did not live as a man in the sense that you mean. I was false, an act, a lie trying to fit into the man's world and failing. You will obviously never understand that concept, so I will try to convince you no longer as the negativity is not funny; it is very distressing for me!

Yes I had three beautiful children who I saw born, and was very jealous of my dear female wife (I had married knowing I should not but was so scarred of the repercussions) who gave birth to them. Indeed, I wanted then to come out and be with them at home, but I was earning the salary and I realised I had to do the responsible thing of looking after my family until they would eventually left home. Hiding my true identity almost killed me with the first of a suicidal mental health breakdown. I was a woman INSIDE, but could then not escape from my male prison.

Sounds very similar to my experiences growing up autistic tbh, the feeling of being "wrong" somehow and the internalisation of that leading to multiple suicide attempts. It sucks, I don't dispute that at all.

NopeNi I asm not suicidal now as I am living 100% as a fully functioning women!

Your tone now is highly offensive and franking just reflects your ignorance along with that the exists with some other "women" on here.

My mother always said that I should never think all women are sweetness and light, kind and generous, adding they can be worse than men! I now understand what she means judging by the hostility I have encountered on this so called "Mums" site when all I have been doing is trying to explain what the "Butterfly" story was about and what is behind it all.

I have been wasting my time!

If you can't bear facts you should probably avoid the Internet mate.

100%? How exactly are you quantifying that?

Thanks BeyondVicious at least you understand.

I have a grandchild who is severely autistic and yes he is facing ignorance, and often other people's fear of the unknown, as anyone with a 'disability' will in this still backward society of ours.

Jane I agree 4 is not uncommon. "As I stated it all started at about the age of 4 years, and that is not uncommon throughout the transgender community.

Max/Maxine was identifying or questioning at 5 in the programme. But that is not the reality the same for everyone now.

At the moment particularly natal females are identifying at 11, 12, 13, 14 etc.

My fear, or one of them, is that the programme set out s kind of route map, which included a suicide attempt (which charitable organisations have said is rare at 11), and self harm or threatened self harm.

This pushes parents potentially to do things or allow things (such as blockers or binders) which may not be right for many children.

"But now, in 2018, many checks and balances are carried out on children who appear to be transgendered."

As in the programme, the fictional mother and the charity mentioned still thought they knew better. What do checks mean if they are not heeded?

"Believe me, even in my time the consultations I had to go through were extreme!"

Dare I say it, Jane, I am not sure things are as rigorous now as they once were. This is an impression I have based on the fact that to question is considered as a kind of blasphemy these days.

I've never met a single soul who has expressed any 'penis envy'.

Jane I have no doubt that old school transexuala exist and have every sympathy for the journey. But the modern presentation of thousands of young dysphoric girls, possibly many who have not expressed any previous dysphoria or any kind 'penis envy'' is not, I believe the same thing.

For the girl I am thinking of, her mum and dad will guide her as best they can. I will remain supportive of her and her parents. Professional help is nice but I understand waits are long and girl in question doesn't want to talk about it.

So what can mum and dad do? Watch and wait.

Very hard for all.

But please do not doubt that parents like these love their child and would do anything in their power if they knew with some certainty what to do.

NopeNi
"If you can't bear facts you should probably avoid the Internet mate."

You wouldn't recognise facts if it bit you on your rear! And I am not "mate", or perhaps you are?!

Wasting my time as I say!!

Italiangreyhound I have great sympathy with what you are all going through.
You state "For the girl I am thinking of, her mum and dad will guide her as best they can. I will remain supportive of her and her parents. Professional help is nice but I understand waits are long and girl in question doesn't want to talk about it.

So what can mum and dad do? Watch and wait.""

Yes, and that underlines what I have stated; checks and balances will take their time as specialists assess her and recommend courses of action. If being treated on the NHS it is a slow process, which is both good and bad. For a 'doubtful' case of GD waiting a time allows for the real truth to come out and confirm what the situation is. For a 'genuine' case of GD delay means a very stressful and confusing time for the girl with puberty advancing given her new difficulties and distress.

ALL the cases of GD I have knowledge of all started around the age of 5. If it starts to occur at 11 only I would be worried that there is another underlying issue, and that complicates the situation somewhat. I have to agree with the doubters that no action should be taken if the child states clearly the sense of being wrong did not start until that age. The case must be seriously reviewed by the gender clinic specialist and case by case decisions made, as in the case of the "Maxine" story, although as you correctly state her GD started at 5.

Hope this helps

NopeNi your whole stance just displays your total ignorance of my, a or any other persons transgender condition.

All the people in government, the legal system, the medical profession recognise the FEMALE truth of my condition and that is why I am FEMALE on all legal documents.

I do not need your, or anyone else's approval on here!!

It's very telling how many men who have 'always been women' manage to suppress that overwhelming urge until they get to the top of their profession and have children. I wonder why that is 

Of course you want validation, you're desperate for it. That's why you're posting so much and exclaiming in horror at biological facts or women daring not to be socialised as nice.

Men can never ever be women, or understand what it truly is to be one. It's properly insulting to pretend you can, because at the core of it womanhood is not a feeling, it's a lived reality, and even if you emulate it you can't get there.