Lassies at the Print Shop **Spoiler Alert - title edited by MNHQ**

[Lessstressedhemum]

New thread for all things Jamie and Claire. But mostly Jamie

God, I love the kinky boots. Yes, he is much more a man's man this season. He has to readjust as well. He isn't used to intimacy at all now with anyone. He is used to being alone, being a leader, being inveigled in subterfuge and to compartmentalising his life. I think this is shown in his wardrobe, as well as his hair, really well.

I think the scriptwriters have tried to make Jamie appear less like an asshole than in the books. We see him trying to contact Ned Gowan as soon as Claire shows up, he's started to tell her at Lallybroch, just as they burst in. None of that happens in the book, it's a total surprise and when Claire leaves he forbids Young Ian to go after her because he doesn't want her pity,

I think that's a good evaluation that Jamie's been leading these men, both in Ardsmuir and for smuggling, but now he needs to learn to treat Claire as an equal. She's not going to stand for him being high handed.

Less I'm sure there's a bit in Voyager where Jamie acknowledges that he has forgotten about feeling fear, as he felt he hadn't got much to lose. But now Claire is back he feels he has got something to lose.

Jenny blaming Claire and Jamie for the fire, when actually it was Young Ian. Young Ian just kept putting his foot in it, going on about Auntie Claire killing a man and being good at selling the illegal liquor...

What was the line he says to LJG about not having anyone to care for?

I loved the moment when he tells Claire “you left!”. Totally irrational, totally unfair, and yet so raw. She did leave. That he made her, that it was the best decision at the time, none of that matters when he has just ripped open the wound of having lost her. It would have happened exactly the same in a real fight between real people

I'm glad you agree with my hair theory.
Mine is looking a bit dodgy at the moment, maybe I need some happy "jamie time".... (wonders what DH would look like in a kilt)

There is, quirky. He says something to the effect of he had forgotten it all, but especially fear and that now he is very afraid because he has something to lose. Then there is the heartbreaking bit when he talks about how lonely he was, craving human contact but none of his men would have dared to touch him out of respect. it's all so sad, it's no wonder he became a bit of a tube.

AKA, he tells LJG that not having anyone to care for is emptiness but no great burden but that the greatest burden is in caring for those whom we cannot help.

Young Ian is what we would call a gowk. Always putting his foot in it and causing chaos completely unawares.

So, my children have now decided that I am the leader of a perfidious cult and that you all need that breaking free therapy

I think the scriptwriters have tried to make Jamie appear less like an asshole than in the books

I agree. By this point in the books, I didn’t really like Jamie anymore. I think the scriptwriters have done an excellent job.

I've just watched it again . I noticed Claire was in a different dress in Lallybroch with Ned Gowan and Jamie's black attire, gorgeous boots too.

I'm definitely in your cult Less but I'm not ready for breaking free therapy!

Courtney they have done an excellent job, I really didn't like this bit in the books, I felt it was clunky and had been based around what a dramatic scene it would be to have Laoghaire and girls burst in. It's been one of my favourite episodes and the acting has been superb. So much more nuanced, it's easier to see why Jenny is so off with Claire, why Jamie wanted a family etc. I love Claire shoving Laoghaire out of the way .

I wrote a long message earlier that got deleted. Stupid phone.

The gist was that this is why we love outlander: there are some truly memorable lines, some bits of dialogue of truly heartbreaking intensity, some really funny, well observed human interactions. They are the precious pearls that keep you going through hundreds of pages of —dross-- far fetched plotting and ridiculous secondary characters.

while I have removed any memory of what happens between them leaving Scotland and arriving in frasers ridge, I still remember, for example, how moved I was by Jamie telling Claire how he couldn’t even masturbate in prison as he was in chains and the noise was so humiliating. I think it was in the same bit you are referencing, Less, about no one touching him for years.

AKA well put. I do remember finding some bits of the books very funny, I did love Jamie's line about not being the only red-headed man in Scotland and Ned Gowan 's about putting the bollocks on the wall. The books are very rich in emotion, adventure, history etc.

*being very funny

Apparently DG lost her shit on Twitter at Ron D Moore suggesting Jamie had always had some chemistry with

A horse of fangirls promptly descended on him.

Urgh, she’s such a nasty piece of work.

Chemistry with a horse?

Apparently DG lost her shit on Twitter at Ron D Moore suggesting Jamie had always had some chemistry with

A horse of fangirls promptly descended on him.

Urgh, she’s such a nasty piece of work.

With Laoghaire!

A horde (not horse) or fangirls etc etc

Sorry for my awful posts today

Chemistry with a horse?

It would explain why he’s been hanging round the stables all those years.

As for this:

Apparently DG lost her shit on Twitter at Ron D Moore suggesting Jamie had always had some chemistry with Laoghaire

She was the one who put them together in the first bleeding place Everyone else just has to try and make sense of her shitty plot lines.

She is awful and her worshippers are worse. For goodness sake, of course he had a bit of chemistry with Laoghaire. He was snogging her all over the place as a young man and she was clearly besotted with him. He just doesn't love her the way he loves Claire. At the end of the day, they are both attractive people with a shared heritage and culture. DG and her fingers really going my gears. They will complain their way out of Season 5.

Fingers = fangirls. Stupid autocorrect

I'm very ambivalent about DG.
I think she created two really good central characters in C and J, and the basic premise of Claire falling back in time is brilliant. But she really hasn't served them well. There are some great supporting characters (Jenny, Ian senior, Roger) but some others are very cardboard (Brianna) and they frequently act completely out of character. I would have preferred it if the only bit of Woo was the time travel and all the rest of the magic woo I can do without.
I think the scriptwriters have kept the good stuff that DG produced but have changed a lot for the better.
It's so long since I read the first 2 books (got bored after that) that I remember too little to be a book purist, so don't have a problem with changes. It's interesting reading discussions with those of you who are more familiar with the books.

Breakfast I'm only familiar because I started watching the show this summer and wanted to know what was happening next, so read the books. So quite recent for me. I reread Voyager as it's the current season.

I think DG'S writing ambitions outstrip her ability tbh. She's created this huge story with lots of characters, locations, times and lots of plot twists. It makes the books very addictive, but the plot can be batshit crazy. Also, things from previous books get taken up as new plot twists books later.

I think Less hit the nail on the head with Jamie had to have had some chemistry with Laoghaire as he was all over her at Leoch.

I think DG'S writing ambitions outstrip her ability tbh

Nailed it. Over complicated plots and a cast of 7892 characters (per book) doesn’t necessarily make you Shakespeare.

She can’t let her characters go either, which is one of the reasons why the later books are like house bricks and why she doesn’t like fan fiction (which she quite appallingly termed as like ‘seeing your children sold off into white slavery’ ). The woman is a horror.

I think Less hit the nail on the head with Jamie had to have had some chemistry with Laoghaire as he was all over her at Leoch.

I think young Jamie had many an encounter with chamber maids at Leoch!

There's a line in the books where Claire and Brianna know about her pregnancy and Jamie doesn't... something about him absolutely definitely not sharing modern tendencies. He's a man of his time. Marriage is a contract (nothing to do with love apart from in exception cases), that contract is mostly concerned with the man, women stay at home with a rake a bairns, men go off making war.

I’m giving up with the books and just sticking with the tv show, and tbh that’s not exactly grabbing me the past few episodes. I’ll see the series to the end, but it’s lost it’s spark, there was so much more DG could have done with the characters rather than ship them off to America. And what was so bad about Roger that DG hated him? I mean he’s a good guy.