Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 6 discussion thread **SPOILERS**

[OlennasWimple]

CAUTION - HERE BE DRAGONS (PROBABLY) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 6 "BEYOND THE WALL"

Come and discuss the fifth episode in the penultimate series, airing August 21ST at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6. This is the penultimate episode this series!!

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones. There is a spoiler thread running here if you want to talk about production leaks and insider information as well

As a little warm up for later, HBO have just released a little teaser for tonight's episode here

I love the books enjoy Puffpaw.

I fucking hate Thenns

Thenns are beautiful, they're kissed by fire.

Sorry, had to be said.

I need to read the books too! So much goes over my head.

Nice to have something to look forward to whilst waiting for the final season next year. I'm guessing the books are tolkienesque in length.

Books are amazing but, like Tolkein, can be frustrating at times. The descriptions of all the different dishes served at meals can be tedious (GRRM should not write when he's hungry, and I'm guessing he's hungry a lot).

I also find some of the battle scenes go on and on and on and on and on.

The dialogue is wonderful and the best parts of the show are taken directly from it (if a little changed). The Hound's cynical monologues are fantastic - utterly free of swears for the most part - and were, sadly, largely cut from the show.

GRRM says that the story is about 'the human heart in conflict with itself' and that this is the only story worth writing about. That conflict is so evident in the book but is almost completely lacking in the show now.

Tyrion told Dany not to go to Jons rescue and she said something "last time you advised me to do nothing I listened to you, I'm not doing nothing again".

When was "last time"?

I do find the books a bit wordy, like Tolkien as you say Arya underfoot. They could definitely lose a few thousand words and still tell the full story.

Speaking of swears, there does seem to an excessive amount of expletives this season, in particular the word 'cunt' being used at every opportunity.

Now, I'm not a prude or against swearing in any way shape or form, but I can't understand why there are now at three such uses of the word every episode. I find it's more powerful (?) when it's used a bit more sparingly.

I'm another who finds the books overtly seeps in words with an excess of description of food and clothing.

"Now though there are less characters...."

Fewer.

I tried Tolkein once as a teen and found whatever book it was really boring and gave up after reading about 60 pages where someone had been riding on a horse that entire time and nothing had happened.

It's been a couple of years since I read the ASOIAF books and I don't remember excessive descriptions of clothes and food, but actually I really like both those things so maybe that's why or maybe I skimmed those bits

I think I would have really struggled if I had read the books before TV show though as there are too many names. I originally wanted to be roughly at the same point book and TV show wise - so watch series 1 then read book 1, just as well I gave up on that notion.

With the show, a scene intending to convey a plot point need not last significantly longer than it takes to convey it.

Whereas with the books the main point of the chapter could be told in a few pages, but you still need the chapter to be 20+ pages in length.

That said, my first love is the books. Its amazing to think that GRRM must have created all these plots right from the off. For instance, the first book featured Hodder, and it is likely that the origin of his name will appear in book 6. So for more than 20 years he must have had the arcs with Hodder and Bran et all that led to this point.

And it will probably be close to 30 years after the first before the books end, and maybe we might finally learn something that was hinted at in book 1, nearly 30 years earlier.

Also hoping for an answer to what ChevalierTialys asked:
"last time you advised me to do nothing I listened to you, I'm not doing nothing again".

When was "last time"?

Whereas with the books the main point of the chapter could be told in a few pages, but you still need the chapter to be 20+ pages in length.

There's no reason this has to be so. Chapters can be shorter or actions related in more concise ways,.

The main problem, though, is that the books have too many unnecessary characters.

Last time was when she wanted to advance on kings landing but didn't and dorne and high garden got captured

I think I would have really struggled if I had read the books before TV show

I started to read the first book when I went through a 'fantasy phase' a few years before the show came out but gave up midway through. I couldn't keep all the characters and storylines and history in my head, and there wasn't the wealth of online resources and wiki pages back then.

I started again as soon as S1 started airing and just devoured them. Apart frrom all the food and battles, I find his use of language so clever. There are hints clues hidden all over the place.

For example, when Catelyn goes to see Renly, she sees looks at his armour and sees her reflection. She notices that she looks like she's seeing herself as if at the bottom of a green river/stream. Very eerie indeed.

TheHipho I agree with you about the use of the 'c' word. It is used in the books, but mainly for anatomical description. The Hound only uses the word once in the entire book series, and that's when he's talking to Sansa. His main curse word is 'bugger'. I suppose that sounds a bit old-fashioned now.

I found the chapters annoyingly short in the first couple of books. You'd just get into the flow of the character's story and then it would end and you'd be on to someone else. I loathed Barristan Selmy's and Areo Hoteh's chapters. So slow...

I confess I've fallen in love with Beric's voice....

He must be the one with the same accent as Ken Stott.

Will the undead dragon breathe ice instead of fire?

What relevance do the Children of the Forest have? Will they be the saviours?

The undead dragon is still a dragon, so anatomically will still have the 'bits' to create fire, not ice. It is an undead fire dragon rather than an ice dragon.

I doubt we'll see the children of the forest again. We now have Bran as the 3-Eyed Raven and I think he'll be the one 'used' by the series as the source of any necessary exposition. I really think the showmakers are going to avoid casting any new actors/characters at this stage in the game if they can avoid it.

Beric has already hinted at the end-game - kill the NK and all the others will drop dead. How very convenient. Maybe it'll be like the Lost Boys and they'll all identify the wrong head vampire. Maybe it'll be Max all the time. How very original that would be.

Here's my issue with the undead dragon thing though. If fire kills wights, then surely producing flame will kill him? I mean it's got to come from inside him, and out of his mouth?! I'm of the opinion that he'll produce icy breath instead. Or at least some kind of flame that freezes.

I think jon will have to kill bran maybe while he wargs into nk, in order to kill the night king.

I think the dragon will produce a cold jet that will freeze anything in its path.