Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 4 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 4 "THE SPOILS OF WAR"

Come and discuss the fourth episode in the penultimate series, airing August 7th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6. If you have seen the leaked episode, please hold back from commenting on it until after the episode has aired to avoid spoilers for those of us who haven't been able to get a version to work

HBO description of the episode: Daenerys fights back. Jaime faces an unexpected situation. Arya comes home.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones

Been ages since I read the books or watched series 1, but why did Joffrey want to kill bran? I thought it was Cersie or Jamie that wanted him dead so he didn't spill the secret that they were sleeping together. Surely Joffrey didn't know that or have any motivation to kill Bran. I'm confused with all these theory's.

awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catspaw

I need to check the references quoted on the page...

Relevant book pages attached. It was a convo between Cersei and Jaime. I think Tyrion had told Jaime that the dagger was originally Robert's but was taken by Joffrey.

Think Joffrey did it based on overhearing Robb say it would be better as Joff wanted to impress his dad? I think it was in the books anyway? I could be wrong.

Robert not Robb.

I live really close to Dragonstone (otherwise known as Zumaia and San Juan de Gaztelugatxe camera mashed together!) and it's been lovely seeing it on screen! Very annoyingly there was a huge recruitment drive for extras to film a big scene on that beach, loads of my friends were in it, and it's been cut!!! It was the army leaving for Westeros..

So Bran will probably see who sent the dagger and the significance of that (if there is any).

How annoying, Donastia! Is it as beautiful there as it looks on the show?

aayla - that's a good point, actually, what's the significance of the dagger now? Even if it were proved that Joffrey tried to kill Bran, Joffrey is long gone and relations between the Starks and Lannisters are sour for other reasons as well. Everyone knows about Jaime and Cersei, and it doesn't affect the line of succession now that the three children are dead. Does it matter now, other than it's Valyrian steel and there's a horde of White Walkers on their way south? Perhaps if it implicates Littlefinger in something, but then again he offered up the dagger himself so he obviously doesn't seem to think so...

Random thought - when Cersie dies, who would be the successor of the Iron throne? Cersie is only ruler because her Robert and all their children have died. She is by law a Baratheon so surely it would pass to Roberts nearest relative? Yes Renley and Stannis are dead but there must be cousins somewhere. Or is it just going to be a Cersie vs Dany thing? Because neither of them will live and provide heirs anyway.

If you're going with Robert's closest living relative (proven) then that would be...... Daenerys.

I think Joffrey sending the assassin is a book-only thing. I don't think it ever appeared in the show. As far as the dagger is concerned, there is no real plot reason for LIttlefinger to give it to Bran.

Is there anything about Littlefinger's actions this season that have made sense? I think the showmaker's just don't know what's left to do with him. It just seems like dragging out the inevitable.

Cersei isn't a Baratheon, she's still a Lannister (because she married the king) and she's only on the throne because she took it and no-one (at the time) challenged her for it. The Baratheons have the same claim to the throne as Dany - their forebears used to have it, and now they want it back.

So unless Cersei has any children, she would need to name an heir and hope that the lords would observe her wishes. Presumably she would name Jaime her heir, but after that.... Too soon to tell, but Euron doesn't seem a likely candidate, nor someone like Randyll Tarly. There aren't any obvious successors around, I don't think?

Dany likewise would either need to have children or name a successor: I guess she could name Jon as her heir, or Tyron, but that also feels unlikely.

Even more fuel to my theory that there won't be an Iron Throne at the end of all this!

I can't see there being an iron throne with anyone on it.

I'm with that one too the next season I imagine is going to be solely about fighting the ww and nk.

Is the iron throne made of valarian steel?

No, aayla, it's made of regular swords that were melded using dragon fire (which isn't believed to be how Valyrian steel is made, though dragon fire seems to be part of the process)

Ah thanks. I wondered whether it might be melted down to help fight the nk.

Maybe the secret of Valyrian steel is in the mouldy scrolls?

There had better be SOMETHING in those scrolls

I've been wondering if there is a way to turn dragon glass into valyrian steel. They can both kill white walkers. Maybe that's the secret Sam is going to find in those scrolls

The scrolls contain all the important secrets of Westeros and beyond. That's why they were allowed to go mouldy and be neglected for generations.

Arya

To be fair, in the books the maesters and the citadel seem quite corrupt, so wouldn't surprise me if certain facts, they weren't too fussed about making sure they were looked after.
On the show they just seem useless. These are the wisest men in the whole continent. Really?

These are the wisest men in the whole continent. Really?

I have started to think of it more and more as the Unseen University. I keep expecting to see an orangutan in the library...

In the books they are clearly hiding something very important - important enough to send a Faceless Man to steal the skeleton key. I'm guessing it has something to do with the 'recipe' for Valyrian Steel, or something to do with killing dragons, or both, or neither.

Either way, I think the scrolls of exposition will be hidden somewhere very safe (but not safe enough).

Haha it is a bit Terry Pratchett isn't it.

On the spin-offs, it will be disapponting if they have nothing to do with the GoT characters. I might have looked forward to something like Better Call Tyrion about his earlier years, or maybe some new stories for whoever is still alive by the end of s8. They might still be good of course.