Game of Thrones - S7 TOTAL SPOILERS - for those who know it all

[FanwankTheAbsurd]

I thought we could do with a thread for those of us who have read all the spoilers for the full season.

Nothing is not allowed.

I watched a Youtube clip of the leak earlier based on the Friki site.

I've just had a disturbing thought....
so far we have only ever seen that Wildling female leader reanimated in Hardhome. Never seen someone we really know or care for (despite speculation over Hodor).

What if Tormund does get killed by a polar bear - how sad to see him as a wight. They've not done this yet, but my prediction for S8 is a reanimated Tormund and maybe Beric (still can't die and remain dead?)

It did break up a very important conversation about the Hound though.
Tsk. Grounds for instant dismissal, that is.

I'm willing to renounce my claim upon show Hound if somehow they manage to bring back Sean Bean
Think we are sorted then. AryaUnderfoot can have book hound, Fanwank can have Sean Bean (even though I did begin to see his appeal for the first time in Broken) and I'll have tv hound. That'll work nicely.

What if Tormund does get killed by a polar bear - how sad to see him as a wight.

I thought the leaks suggest that it's Thoros who's killed by the polar bear and they burn his body so he can't be reanimated. That would mean Beric is on his 'final' life (unless tv-HOund became the new red priest which is utterly cringeworthy but not beyond D&D).

Didn't Torumund's son get reanimated in the books and Tormund had to kill him? I can see them reanimate get a fallen Tormund as some sort of fan service to book readers.

Arya Might be getting my polar bear kill mixed up there. It was bad enough seeing Wun Wun (I think it was him) in the undead army, but anyone else - including Thoros - would be sad.

Oh Lord, the thought of The Hound as a red priest is indeed cringey. I like him because he hadn't found religion (I know, they're trying to show redemption, but I prefer jaded Hound).

I recall he gave a great line to Lovejoy in the series about religion and all the different gods.

Glad we are all sorted now then 😂 (Though I'd like if it we could bring Sean Bean back from his Sharpe days, phwoar!)

Giant wight wasn't Wun Wun as he had lost his right eye to Ramsays arrow. And it's Thoros who gets killed by the bear and is indeed burnt. I can't see Jon&co NOT burning their dead, they seemed to start doing that even at castle black so, thankfully, we won't see a reanimated Wun Wun.

If the bring Hodor back I'm going to cry. His death affected me more than any of the others, it was pure genius the way the back story evolved.

🤤

Sharpe was the other thread

Anyone got a picture of young Ned we can compare with sharpe?

Young Ned

I thought the craving of Ned in the crypt looked quite like the young Ned.

Carving, not craving 😂

MyOtherProfile and Fanwank, just for you.

Don't think we'll ever see this much of Rory on GoT!!!

Freudian slip maybe?

He's no sharpe, but it's not a bad go at finding a young SB

😂

Arya and Fanwank - thanks for sorting me out! At least the polar bear bit was right. Can't wait to see it!

MyOtherProfile and Fanwank, just for you. Don't think we'll ever see this much of Rory on GoT!!!
Mmm thank you!
Was it on here that I read that in one scene (can't remember which now) RM was originally planned to be shirtless so he trained and cut out the beer then they made him wear his manky old tunic anyway so it was all for naught and clearly did nothing for us hound fans

I read that in one scene (can't remember which now) RM was originally planned to be shirtless

Yes, I remember reading that too. I think it was the scene where Arya stitches up his manly neck wound in season 4.

Unfortunately, it's always been a bit of a 'stretch' for me to try to see the Hound being 5 years younger than his brother. I think this would have shattered the illusion once and for all - particularly in the season with the fight between the Mountain and the Viper. Luckily, unGregor now wears his HeMan and the Masters of the Universe helmet all the time, so his age can be left up to the imagination!

Whilst I would certainly have enjoyed that scene if he was topless, I think him wearing a big baggy tunic, like an undershirt, made him seem smaller and more like a child. He looked all the more....not pathetic or weak, I can't think of the right word, kind of delicate? Sensitive? Fragile? He was baring his soul to her and finally letting someone in. It was lovely. I think his storyline has been one of my favourites.

Dd (16) doesn't get him at all, but she read the books cover to cover and he is much more unlikeable in them apparently. I never read the books so only have the lovely Rory to go by. I loved the evolution of his story with Arya, thought it was really nicely done, how they went from kidnapper and victim through to an almost father and daughter double act was very well done.

I'm looking forward to the scene where he and brienne meet again and chat about Arya.

he is much more unlikeable in them apparently.

I wouldn't say he is more unlikeable in the books, but he is definitely more complicated.

For starters he is 20 years younger. He comes across at first as like a typical playground bully who lashes out verbally and physically to cover up a cripplingly low self-image. He is an utter gob-shite and 99% of everything he says is utter bullshit. Interestingly, the two people who see straight through it are Sansa and Arya. In the books he is not a point-of-view character and you really mostly 'see' him through the eyes of the two Stark sisters - both of whom see him through a filter of their preconceived ideas.

In the show they have massively downplayed his interactions with Sansa and massively exaggerated his relationship with Arya. In the books, he is pretty much a broken man after the red wedding and wanders the Riverlands aimlessly with Arya - having little or no conversation with her. He tries to get work in a village building a palisade fence, but once he's finished the heavy work the villagers church him out as they don't want to be sheltering 'Joffrey's dog'. His final undoing is when he goes to the Inn at the Crossroads and finds out that Sansa has been married to Tyrion and gets so pissed he can't fight the Tickler and Polliver properly and sustains a leg wound which gets infected. Arya leaves him under a tree (like in the show) and goes off to Braavos. No great chicken speeches, no fight with Brienne.

In the books there are some brillinant (and cringeworthy) interactions with Sansa. She shows great empathy towards him and is able to instinctively respond to him in a way which calms down his most terrible rages. Although I can understand why the show went a different path (it would have made him look awful as a character) it has detracted significantly from showing her character development and her better personal qualities.

Most annoyingly, two of his finest moments with Sansa were robbed from him and given to Littlefinger, of all people. In the books it is Sandor who tells Sansa the story of his scars. In the entire book series she is the only person who knows. Also, he said the line 'they're all liars here, and all of them better than you'. The significance of the scene in the books is that it sort of sets him up as being the Lady replacement for Sansa, which may yet come to pass in the books. However, that's still just a theory.

As I said before, Sandor Clegane is a bit of a 'specialist subject' of mine and I could waffle on for literally hours about him. He is one of my favourite characters, and I think he's one of GRRM's.

When he started writing the series, GRRM said he would envisage Ron Perlman playing the Hound. Ron played Vincent in the 1980's series Beauty and the Beast which was written by........GRRM.

I could waffle on for literally hours about him.

Feel free, I could listen for hours 😂

Yes me too! Why do you think his interactions with Sansa would make him look awful? I forget.

I think the events following him coming to her room during the Battle of the Blackwater would have looked awful if they'd done it this way on the show. Imagine a 6 ft 6 Rory looming over a young teenage Sophie Turner with a knife to her throat forcing her to sing. It's much more in keeping with drunken, volatile and emotionally immature book Hound, but the show character comes across, and always has, as much more 'together'.

It's interesting, in the books, how both Sansa and Sandor re-write the history of the events of that night in their own minds when recalling it to others/themselves.

In the show they originally had Sophie singing the song to Sandor, but re-wrote the scene to take it out.

In the books it's not the first time that he holds a blade to her throat or threatens to kill her.

I also appreciate scenes with the Hound. It would have been impossible to recreate the unkiss in the show, as Sophie is a lot older and we can't see her thoughts later on.

In the book when they discuss Sansa's marriage to Tyrion with Arya, he says something like I should have raped her to death. He has obviously never done it when he had the chance and I thought he meant that she would be better off dead than in the Lannisters' clutches, but it did not endear him to a lot of readers. Quite understandably.

Arya How do you think the Hound is related to Dunk? Or is he even? He is also not a knight and has Dunk's build and loyalty.

I thought he meant that she would be better off dead than in the Lannisters' clutches, but it did not endear him to a lot of readers. Quite understandably.

I read that the same way you did. It's amazing how many arguments that one line causes on Westeros.org! What's always interesting to me is that in both his 'kill me' confessions he mentions watching and doing nothing while they beat her. He knows he doesn't match up to his still firmly embedded childhood view of what a knight should be. Jaime, on the other hand, says that 'the White cloak soiled me'. Rather opposing views....

I don't think we'll know the significance of the unkiss until Winds comes out (if it ever does). I imagine the majority of book readers probably don't even notice it. I didn't on my first read.

I've read the theory that Sandor is related to Dunk and I think it's plausible. They both ended up in the kingsguard without being knights. I can actually see Sandor ending up back in the kingsguard/queensguard but who knows.

I've also read theories that Brienne could be Dunk's descendant. I think there's something to do with a shield mentioned in Feast which may have been Dunk's but I can't remember now. Also, there's the fact that Jaime asked her in the baths in Harrenhal 'are you as thick as a castle wall?'

I suppose we'll have to wait and see if Dunk ever meets Tanselle again... Personally, I'd rather GRRM just got on with writing Winds! I know, I'm deluded!