Lassies of Lallybroch part 2.....SPOILERS

[Drywhitethanks]

Because we can't wait until next year for season 3. Highbrow discussion of Jamie's knees, hair and anything else Outlander

I enjoyed it much more on a second (ahem, and third) watching. I need to find a way to put out of my head what I want it to be, and just see it for what it is. I'm almost sad that I read the books now as I unequivocally loved everything I saw before that.
I really love Jenny and Ian. I'm going to be so sad when we leave Scotland.

Sadly, I have watched it 3 times as well and cried every time. Much mocking ensued. I think that you have to kind of separate the books from the series, it avoids too much disappointment when bits are missed out.

I think Sam should win some kind of awesome award for his acting so far. He is heartbreaking.

Am I the only one who likes season 2? It's just so absurd, and the costumes are fab. I wonder if Claire ever told Frank she had to sleep with the king (I love the way she takes the orange as she leaves). I'm contemplating a complete rewatch from the start (I even like the search episode - they just do it so well)... so that I can watch ep3 on monday after rewatching 'the story so far'. In my defence I have a lot of work to do this weekend and I watch while I work.

I reckon I like it because I didn't know the books until I found this thread. So watched s1 and 2 before I read any. So have nothing invested in the books. To me the characters look and behave like the tv ones as I saw them first. Does this make sense? I'd love to sit in on the screen writers meetings, "how on earth are we going to make this 264 page description sensible?" as the raw material is a bit, um, ridiculous at times.

And the audio books...the lady who reads them distinguishes female and male by doing soft and angry voices. I'm forever telling her that Lord John would not be sneering all the time. And she pronounces Loughire wrong. I gave up half way through the drums of autumn as she had Rogers voice so wrong! Not her fault, but still.

I reckon I like it because I didn't know the books until I found this thread

That’s an interesting point. I’ve been thinking about this and I wondered how I’d feel if I’d read the books beforehand. I have zero attachment to the books in this case and agree that the ‘raw material’ is, ahem, in need of good editor, shall we say? (The big book fans are bonkers, btw. The grief that DG and the producers get about changes to the books is insane).

However, if I’d read the books first, I’d probably be just going along with the flow of the series but they did such a good job of filming the first book that the scenery is almost a character in its own right. I just wanted Claire and Jamie to Potter about in the Highland mist forever and I was seriously disappointed when the action moved further afield.

The other thing about S2 was that C&J were together in the same time period but apart emotionally and there was far too much plotting and politics and no shagging.

i like season 2. its a hard book to translate to screen, but they did it very well. i do think some of the book fans are a wee touch over-invested. they are totally off their heads. You see it on HH all the time, tantrums because something is not quite the same as in the books. And the hero worship of DG's writing burns my biscuits. Greatest writer of her generation? i don't think so. She needs a heavy handed editor. in saying that, I love the books a lot.

Voyager has been my favourite book to date, especially the separation of C & J. I might try some Lord John books later, as I like his character a lot.

I've started listening to the commentary podcasts now they're on iTunes, and I was surprised when the writers/producers said that Claire was making an effort in her marriage to Frank. I think she's being really unfair to him in the last episode, and I feel a lot more sympathetic to him than I did in the book. I can't wait until they get to Roger, he's my favourite, but I think probably another episode or 2 until he reappears.

I've actually only read the first book (and hated it because Claire is very clearly raped by Jamie and then beaten once they're married) Obviously in the TV programme they change the rape a lot and manage to justify the beating (just).

I love the first half of Voyager but the second half is a bit dire. I really hope they are going to make some hefty edits!

Interesting.
Jamie raped Claire?!
I only read the books after watching S2 so agree with Lonely, I see J and C as SH and CB. So far I've loved S3, it's just as I'd imagined it in the books with the crap cut out. I agree DG is v over indulgent as a writer.
What is HH?

DH is put tonight, guess what I'm doing?

I didn't read book 1 or 2

J did not rape C in book 1. There's a bit that's morally questionable in book 3 after C finds out about L and J is trying to stop her leaving but C specifically tells Jenny it was consensual although it looked bad.
I do think DG does the saying no when she really means yes thing too much though. I think maybe your thinking of the make up sex after C forgives J for the beating? C's head says no but she's annoyed that her body says yes and she wants to in spite of herself.

I don’t think J raped C. That’s not how I read it anyway (although I’m not quite sure which bit exactly you’re referring to).

Jamie definitely raped someone though but not til later on. The books are utterly foul in that respect. I think all the main characters have been raped at some point.

He didn't rape Geneva either DG has been very clear on that matter!

Not sure ‘Well, she said ‘no’ but I knew she meant ‘yes’ really’ would stand up in court, but ok.

If DG wanted to make it clear that he didn’t rape her, perhaps she ought to have written it a little less like a rape scene. The whole thing is gross.

Agreed DG did a poor job! if she had made it less ambiguous she wouldn't have had to write a specific piece on her Facebook refuting the rape. It's an interpretation a lot of people make.
I must admit I read it twice the first time round because it's so out of character.
But DGs explanations are here.
m.facebook.com/AuthorDianaGabaldon/posts/1266070013435832

That’s interesting, thanks gamer I’ve only skim read it (will have a proper look later) but if DG has to go that length to explain that one scene, I think she needs to rethink some things. The whole thing just makes me shudder and cringe simultaneously.

finally caught up! had a hell of a week but glad i waited until i had an interrupted stretch of time to watch it.

Well I loved it. Loved loved loved. I think Sam does Jamie's utter desolation and emotional "desertification" really well, and my heart broke again and again for him during those harrowing, intense silent scenes. The scene with Mary, which I adored in the book, was done beautifully - you clearly get a sense of how much Jamie craves that kindness and human contact even though he has to give up the clock of isolation he has adopted to preserve his heart. I think also very elegantly juxtaposed with Claire "using" Frank to alleviate her loneliness and heartbreak. Bloody Jenny, with all her meddling, only grief will come of it! and yet once again the actress who plays Jenny has elevated her character with a fierceness and a raw love that was missing in the books. Stellar job.

And shall we say a word about lovely wee Fergus? "I have become a man of leisure, milord" oh how my heart broke for his gentle, generous soul! And Jamie breaking down in tears in Jenny's arms, reader, i think I sobbed!

I find it hard to enthuse abut the Boston bit - hated them in the books, so dreary and soul destroying. I had never any doubt that despite Jamie's suffering Claire got the shit end of the deal... so dreary and soulless.

Finally, may I just say that we are getting some fiiiiinnnne shots, both flashback Jamie and shower Frank more than fulfilled their objectification potential :)

spoilers for those who have not read Voyager, stop here!

mmmhhh the rape discussion... my 2p: J did not rape C (although I know the scene you guys are talking about, it is squeaky in the extreme); J did rape G, definitely (Just like Ross raped Elizabeth, in case we need to settle that too lol).

Jeez, DG does not come across well from that FB post.

Agree about Boston bits. My all time worst bit that involved 99% skimming of books is the later episode when Brianna is stuck in some underground power plant tunnel totally baffling!

Can't wait to see Roger again LOVE RR almost as much as SH

Jeez, DG does not come across well from that FB post.

Agreed. Love her use of Q.E.D to absolutely prove her point 🙄

Can't wait to see Roger again LOVE RR almost as much as SH

Me too. I love Rik Rankin.

Just watched E3 trailer on YouTube .....it's going to be fantastic! Lord John!!!!!cant wait, love David what's his name who plays him.......next Bond I reckon.

hello Lord John hope that works

LORD JOHN! Omg so ready for it.

Jamie did not rape Claire. Their make up sex was very rough, like a lot of their sex, but it was consensual. The morning after sex was also consensual. As for the beating, he was punishing her for endangering everyone else. AT the end of the day, they are in the C18th, that would not have been unusual - a man would have fared far worse had he done the same. I grew up in a time where parents skelped their weans' bums regularly, with hands, slippers, belts, whatever and where misbehaviour at school was punished with the belt, we all recovered and managed to survive unscathed to adulthood. The C18th was far more brutal, a skelping would have been the least of it.
Realistically, Claire is Jamie's property, he doesn't actually need her consent for anything, he can expect her just to lie back and open her legs any time the mood takes him. He doesn't do that.
Jamie didn't rape Geneva, either, if anything, she took away his ability to give consent because of her threats to his family. The mouth covering bit was so that no-one heard. He would have been in A LOT of trouble is he had been caught in her bed and she would have been ruined - no advantageous marriage to rich old men.
I have been sexually assaulted and there is no way that I would have had sex several times with my assailant or told them that I loved them, so Geneva obviously didn't view Jamie in that light. I think the "stop" was most likely first night nerves when she realised that it hurt.
TBF, though, DG does use the whole no means yes thing a lot and its not nice. She has some odd fantasies, it would seem.