GAME OF THRONES - S7E8 - SPOILERS AND FAN THEORY DISCUSSION WARNING 2AM SHOWING ONWARDS

[EverySongbirdSays]

THIS THREAD IS FOR THE EPISODE NO-ONE

FIRST UK SHOWING 2AM 13/6/16

SPOILERS

ARE

COMING

AND WHAT DO WE SAY TO THOSE WHO ASK IF SANSA IS MARRIED TO TYRION OR RAMSEY?

WE SAY THERE ARE LEGITIMACY ISSUES WITH BOTH MARRIAGES OK? HAPPY? CANCEL THE CHEQUE!

AND WHAT DO WE SAY TO THOSE WHO COME TO THIS THREAD THEN COMPLAIN THERE ARE SPOILERS???

WE SAY NOT TODAY!!!!

Saga I hope so...

It's been a while since I read the books, but I don't think Howland Reed would necessarily be known to anybody at King's Landing, and in any case 20 years of hard living would have changed his physical appearance a lot. In the books, he lived in the middle of an area a bit like the Fens in England before the Dutch came over and drained them a few hundred years ago. I think it's a bit to the north of the Twins, and so falls in the North, ie Stark territory. The people there are odd and don't mix much. Howland Reed came out to serve in the war with the Starks, because he was Ned Stark's bannerman. At the end of the war he went back into the bogs and hasn't been since.

In the books, Jojen and Meera just turn up at Winterfell because they somehow know that Bran needs them. HR sent them, or agreed to them coming. We have no idea what's happened to him. Before the Red Wedding, Robb Stark sent a couple of people off to find him (one of them being a Mormont woman), which I think was with a view to getting him to bring his people into the war. That's still a dangling loose end in the books, IIRC.

It had never occurred to me that HR might be HS, but I rather like the idea now. I wouldn't put money on it, but who knows? Almost anything is possible in GOT.

I may be alone in feeling this, but I've really enjoyed series 6 so far, more than series 5 at the same point.

And finally, I am proud to say that I did indeed work out that R+L might =J from reading the books! My theory now, though, is that that is a bluff and the truth may turn out to be a bit different.

But surely Kevan Lannister or Jaime rode North at some point or they met in battle or Cersei knew him via Robert? I'm just not buying it. Not after Arya.

I'm just at the point in book 2 where Meera and Jojen have come into it. Lots of guest descend at Winterfell including The Cranes. Any relation to the famous Lady Crane of the Westeros end stage show?

I really like your post MissMoo and I agree with much of it. But!

I remember reading the books and being like OK there's this fight going on and it's over a throne and people think that's the important thing, but unbeknownst to most there's a hidden extinction level threat coming (The White Walkers) and people think it's a myth so they aren't prepared AT ALL and at some point all these different factions are going to have to unite on one team to defeat them. I have some hype for that. The Hound, Jaime, Jon, Yara, Tyrion, Jorah, Brienne, Bronn, Greyworm, Davos on one fucking team. FUCK YEAH!

MissMoo I'm generally inclined to agree that things have got a bit spread out and wishy washy. I also like most of the supernatural stuff to be kept to a minimum - it can just seem a bit lazy, though I like prophecy stuff that does not mean what it first appears to and keeps you guessing.
I do like Every's point that everyone is so wrapped up in petty power struggles but actually there's some huge trouble brewing without them realising - is it some sort of global warming analogy?

Wasn't there a mini ice age in Tudor times too?

I'm so excited about the next episode!! Episode 9 is always where the mad stuff happens. I have to find a streaming site for this one, I won't be able to wait a day (especially because of spoilers).

I hope that Tormund, Davos, Lyanna, the Starks and Brienne survive. If Brienne makes it there in time. But I think Wun Wun is a goner, he's just too big a target

But my last hope for the season is that Arya and the Hound meet up again. Their scenes together were the best ones in the whole series. Though I suspect he's more likely to run into Brienne. I'd get my GOT maps out, but they long ago stopped making the characters journeys in any way realistic!

I'm sure I've seen paintings of people skating on the Thames in Tudor times.

Wasn't that common as recently as Dickens though?

The last Frost Fair was 1814, so just about within Dickens' lifetime but probably not quite what you had in mind Songbird. The Little Ice Age petered out gradually towards the middle of the 19th century.

I found something a bit disquieting Edmure on his return... Couldn't put my finger on it at all until today when I realised I actually really fucking fancy him. And not just Edmure but specifically grimy, neglected and scared Edmure.

I think I need to have a word with myself.

It had never occurred to me that HR might be HS

Who is HS?

Who is HS?

ooh! I can answer this. HS is High Sparrow I AM a real fan

What are "Cersei's Peter Andre qualities"?

She really loves her kids!

I doubt the Lannisters ever rode North before the books. They kept whinging all the way to Winterfell in book 1 and they had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. Jamie mentions all the places he went in the past (like Riverrun to scout out Lysa who he was supposed to marry) and he never mentions Winterfell. Kevan had no business to go there (no one does, it is cold and it is very far away, it takes weeks and weeks to go there and there is nothing there from the Southerners' point of view).
The crannogmen are really looked down in the South as well, they are considered to be inferior.
Cersei could only see Howland Reed at the tourney at Harrenhal, but she was too preoccupied with Rhaegar. Jaime was not allowed to enter that tourney, and he was going through the ceremony of becoming Kingsguard there, so he would not have cared or seen much. After the ceremony in the sept he was sent back to KL immediately.

Again at the sack of King's Landing Jaime meets Ned, but he has bigger fish to fry than worry about some minor crannogman. Then Ned leaves very quickly when he finds out what happened with the Targ babies and has a bust-up with Robert. After lifting the siege at Storm's End and going to the Tower of Joy, Ned heads straight to the North to his new wife taking his new baby Jon. Ned was in a huff and never went to KL again until the books, and Howland Reed never left Greywater Watch again - which is a mystical place that cannot be found if they do not want to be, because the place literally moves in the bog.

So no, Jaime, Cersei or Kevan could not recognise Howland Reed. Tywin or Varys may, because they are good with this sort of thing.

Miss I am with you in your rant.

What do we think of the idea that mid battle it all goes wrong for Ramsey when those from the North turn against him because he flays and burns Rickon / goes for Sansa? There have been lots of words but the North doesn't forget.

The idea that in they would sit back and watch Ramsey destroy one of the great houses doesn't sit right. The kids know their men won't like that cruelty. Could it look like they're going to lose, even WITH little finger helping but then they gain soldiers when everyone turns on the Boltons?

I was pondering this in the bath last night.

Carl Not only Show North does not remember, they have amnesia.

Gasp0de High five! I noticed R+L=J as well, although not much else. People notice so much more!

Thank you for all the book suggestions. I have bookmarked this thread.

I wondered if the thing with Edmure might be a foreshadowing. When the Lord turned up, his men immediately obeyed him instead of the Blackfish. If Smalljon is killed, then the new Lord Umber could immediately tell his men to stop fighting.

Total newbie to thread but have read all the books and watched the shows. Admittedly read the books ages ago but isn't HR an old gods person? With the trees and stuff? So why would he now be new godsing it up as HS? Is there some other reason that would make sense?

Soloman even more than that I'm still hoping there is more to it and the Umbers are still onside. Hoping for some exciting twists and turns tomorrow night.

jus I think the idea is that the High Sparrow thing is a ruse/plot to screw over the Lannisters.

The lack of Howland Reed at this point or any point is a bit odd considering.

"Ned goes to the Tower Of Joy and then goes home with Jon"

OR DOES HE?!?

What about Arthur Dayne and his missing sword and Ashara Daynes "stillborn" baby and the house with the lemon tree and the red door

HMMMMMM

This weeks Alt Shift X

I read somewhere that Varys and Dany haven't yet met on screen. Perhaps she'll remember something about her past when they do meet?

Also, there are so many fan theories and even the ones that appear to have lots of supporting evidence may not be true. I was convinced that Jeyne Westerling was pregnant and baby Robb would show up, but I think the events on the series have ruled that out