Meet Britain's Chinese Tiger Mums BBC 2 Now!

[sailorsgal]

I think I'm going to feel like a bad mother.

19 isn't too late. I have friends who succeeded in their 30s upwards. I'm not one of those although did work for a long time before dcs. Didn't even think no job was an option but that wasn't my upbringing just in me I suppose?

DS1 is very bright, doesn't need to try. DS2 isn't academic but extrememly practical. I know they'll find their way hope.

I can't understand this mother talking now? She knows it's wrong doesn't she?

I thought this program was going to make me feel inadequate but it's not.
Just feel sorry for those kids

Oh I know Sidge Poor boy saying he gets to rest then. So very wrong.

I knew I would feel all judgy, its based on that book that came out a couple of years ago. I loathe this type of parenting. We have a few tigers at our school. I am just a flea-ridden moggy

I feel most hopeful for Juliette, with her mixed heritage - think her dad will temper the efforts of tiger mom to hothouse her. I hope!

I like Juliette's dad.

Yes or Juliette will feel pulled in both directions? Those two are so opposite.

poor boy now. Red pen on his work.

YY Pocks - suspect I'm not even worthy to be the flea on the mangy old moggy!

And happy birthday to him

also rather meh at the banker sending Hugo to Mandarin classes because of the way the global economy is going dahling.

Agree that things are ultra competitive though in the workplace.

Yes can sort of understand learning the language but the hothousing is bad.

Anyway, it's over now.....and breath. Shame those kids can't

I can understand where one of those mums is coming from. She said there is no safety net in Taiwan (IIRC) so they have to crack on. I feel scared for my dc's future (LP, few family members, government cutbacks, economy going down the plughole) and know I'll need to push them to give them a chance of doing well.

But I let them play with mud and watch tv too. And we don't have room for a piano and I can't even play chopsticks anyway.

This programme has made me think.

If I was living in China, due to marriage or work, I imagine I would try to bring up my dcs roughly in line with my own upbringing, rather than adopting the Chinese style. I did well academically without any pressure from my parents.

I think these parents cannot reject the way they were brought up, as they are expected to respect their parents above all else, so logically they honour their parents by continuing the parenting style, even if it as odd with most of British society.

There is clearly a happy medium between extreme hot housing and letting dcs play computers all day...

Apologies to anyone Chinese reading above post, I have never been to China and all my impressions are based on novels, tv etc... so could be barking up the wrong tree.

Or just barking.

i think that for many of these women their own parents made sure it was drummed into them just how much they had to sacrifice to allow them an education.

It was explained to them just how important an education is.

I don't think that is a bad thing. I think education is often undervalued in this country. we take our free system for granted much of the time.

but the hothousing and "5 good hours" is, imho damaging to a childs social development.

I am of Chinese ethnicity, and to some extent, not as much as the mums on the programme, my parents were stricter than average.

However I thought the programme was very unfair, as it seems to have deliberately chosen three rather extreme examples, and then only show some parts of their lives. I'm afraid that it can only encourage dislike of Chinese people as a whole.

By and large Chinese parents have exactly the same fears, hopes, desires, for their children as parents anywhere. Before being too critical of even the mums who appeared in the programme, it should be noted that China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc. are not welfare states, and there is no safety-net for people who are jobless.

The Geordie husband of one of the women was fine - but the Chinese husband of one of the others, who enjoyed gardening - was also much more relaxed about how his child was doing. But I expect that won't be noticed much.

I was very apprehensive about this programme when it was announced. My fears have proven justified. If even a generally polite and civilised community such as Mumsnet can react in such a negative way - "these people are crazy" -- I am not daring to go on to the male-dominated forums I am more used to, and see the hatred and dislike of Chinese people which will surface there.

FrankH you are right the programme definetely had its own agenda (one of most compulsive rather than unbiased viewing) and clearly much editing was done. I also think it failed to highlight the reasons for such hothousing which would have been both interesting and invited a more sympathetic portrayal.

And fwiw I am sure we all know many non-Asian families that are not dissimilar.

FrankH that is very interesting to hear. It would be equally possible to produce a programme showing several white British families, Asian families or whatever with similarly strict views towards academic achievement. Or indeed families who are extremely laissez-faire.

I watched it and somewhere inside I felt a little jealous if their drive and staying power to push their children.
I was brought up in a 'school Work first' family and was expected to go to uni and get a good job etc and, although we read everyday with the

Oops!
..children, and homewoek is done straight after snacks, the rest of their time is spent playing and I often feel Luke I am not doing enough for them to get them through the tough job markets ahead.
But then I think of how I rebelled and became a uni drop out and I want them to actually achieve and be self motivated and Di better than me so I know pushing may not Work.
Then again, we are seen as strict with regards to rules, so I am permanently confused as to what is right. I think I am slack, esp compared to tiger mums, but friends think I am strict?
But then I do make the children go to swimming when they dint want to as I think it is a life skull they need. Maybe I am too strict??
They don't do tutoring or any extra Work though.
Oh. And I am British.

I know Juliette's mum and she is lovely. She wants the best for her daughter and I think she is strikes a good balance.

What about the 100% caucasian parents who send their kidsto mandarin school though?

Agree to an extent, Frank, but I don't think that the attitude of the more 'relaxed' Chinese parent went unnoticed compared to the English father. If anything, Matthew's father seemed almost apathetic to me, to the point of giving up on having any opinion on Matthew's education/schedule as he knew it wouldn't be countenanced by his wife. Juliette's dad appeared relaxed yet still invested in her schooling, and in more of a partnership with his wife.

I absolutely understand the desperate position that families in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan can find themselves in with no welfare state, and how this translates into a desperate need to ensure their children have the best possible start. A programme like tonight's doesn't in any way make me 'dislike Chinese people'. It makes me grateful to be raising my son in a place where he will have access to a good education, with plenty of opportunity to 'advance' in any particular sphere should he show aptitude. I'm sad for children growing up alongside my DS who may be experiencing, IMHO, this rather insular view of a rounded education that the 'tiger moms' insist their DC conform to.

I'm of Chinese ethnicity too and I laughed so hard at tonight's programme cos I recognise all of it. It's amazing how some aspects of the Chinese culture stays the same throughout the world even though Chinese people themselves can come from such diverse backgrounds. I was brought up in the Asian country where the emphasis was very much on studying (and surprise, surprise, I had piano lessons too... ). My parents always stressed academic excellence. What the programme is not showing (though it was stated at one stage by the American mum that what drives her is how happy her kids are) is that underneath it all, there is also a lot of love!

I read an article about Lang Lang (the pianist whose father told him to 'kill' himself when he decided to give up playing the piano) and it was interesting how he said that yes, he think his father regrets being so hard on him but he made the point that what people forget is that through it all, his father never stopped loving him and he knew it.

My parents' expectations for us academically without question is that we have to go to uni and both my brother and I did that. We both did well academically but I also remember my father sitting down with us from a very young age every night to read with us and do our homework. I am grateful to my parents for having that expectation as I do think that once you have a degree, you have a great deal of freedom to choose what you want to do afterwards. There are extremes to every method of parenting and I laughed at a lot of the stuff tonight. I am a lot more relaxed with my two DCs (but am now thinking I should channel my inner tiger mum!) but I do have certain expectations I have of them that stems deep down culturally. So we shall see, my DCs are still little! :)

I think it'd take a racist person to dislike Chinese people based on that programme. I've seen other programmes with other cultures who are of a similar ilk. I also know caucasians who push their children too.

I find it interesting that in some European countries they leave schooling until much later yet interestingly their dcs do well too, on average. I think it's very sad to push tiny children. They are children after all. Play is a very important part of learning and should be paramount imo, not a mere extra.