Doctor Who Series 6 part 2 - the ganger thread

[RustyBear]

Old thread's getting full, so here's a nice new acid-resistant one...

[OddBoots]

I don't think there was anything in that line OhYouBadBadKitten that isn't taught to children in history lessons.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Secondary school history lessons - yes. Primary school - no. Year 6 history, touches a very little on the antisemitism aspect. Dr Who is huge in Primary schools.

[SoupDragon]

Given that River Song had been indoctrinated into being the Doctors assassin, isn't it clear that the Doctor/Amy/Rory never manage to find and rescue Melody?

[HarrietJones]

Dd1 is 11 & would understand OYBBK. She knows Anne Frank story.

[Jix]

Sorry - I've obviously missed more than I realised.
Please can someone explain - 2 or even 3 doctors? What exactly Is a Ganger anyway (hides head in shame).

PS my kids (7 and 10) certainly already know that people who are gay or Jewish are/have been persecuted, including during Nazi Germany. I just answer their questions as they come up. You don't need to go into the whole history lesson, but an awareness about how other people are treatred can certainly start early imo.

[Jix]

Oh of course doppel ganger. Forget that bit!

[GlaikitFizzog]

nothing to add, just marking my spot!

[DamnDeDoubtance]

K, so who do you think is in the suit? My money is that its the Doctor.

[PinotsWolefCubs]

[EricNorthmansMistressOfPotions]

I don't think River is the one in the suit, the one who shoots the doctor. It has been assumed because we saw the little girl in the suit, then we saw her regenerate but there is no reason to think the little girl (surely was river, she said she last regenerated into a toddler in new york) was still in the suit when the astonaut shot the doctor.

River kills the doctor at some point though, that's clear. So if she wasn't the astronaut, could that be referring to the poisoned kiss?

[MugglesandLuna]

I dont think it is River - because the Doctor seemed to know who it was, and he wouldnt have know Toddler River, would he??

[RustyBear]

But he might have known who it was going to be....

[rosy71]

I've been trying to work out River's timeline. I don't think it can be her that shot the doctor - didn't the astronaut walk out of the lake, then back in again? And River was there, watching. I've no idea who it was though . The little girl River was in 1969 but the Doctor was shot in 2011 so she wouldn't have been the little girl then, unless she'd time travelled, I suppose.

I love Dr Who, but I do prefer the one-off episodes to the complicated, series-long story lines though. I'm sure it'll all become clear at the end.

[P0rtBlacks4ndRes1dent]

Sooo - River's timeline so far (have i got this right? - those with better knowledge please fill in my gaps))

Born and the lady with the eyepatch kidnapped her - bought up in the spacesuit and programmed / trained to kill the Dr
Rory and Amy never find her again at this point (the pics of Amy holding her that were in the spooky room were from before she was taken away)
Escapes and regenerates in Alley
Into .... (poss another person for a while???)
Then into Mels who befriends Amy knowing all along that she wants to kill the Dr - so keeps close, engineers her getting together with Rory etc.
Then becomes River in this episode and turns good but uses up all her regenerations

Phew....

What do you think the Dr whispered to her as he was dying?

[P0rtBlacks4ndRes1dent]

Oh and i agree with the poster who said that there's a lot of back-filling of the storyline going on

[cornsilksi]

could have been River from the future (in the episode where she dies)- she is wearing an astronaut suit when she is first introduced. So present River might not recognise herself She is now going to the Luna University which seems to be linked to that first episode as well. Dr Moon etc. The Dr has time to save himself now anyway, in the same way as he saved River in the library.

[SoupDragon]

Am I right in thinking that the River in the library was a free woman and not in prison?

[cornsilksi]

yes I think she was....so she must be freed from prison at some point

[shineynewthings]

Don't think it was a great episode. Rory and Amy's non-existent emotional reaction to losing their baby and being confronted by an adult child is silly. The doctors reaction to there being another Timelord and him no longer being alone is also not fully explored either, this makes them all appear increasingly lacking in character.

This doctor has no emotional depth whatsoever.

There is still no convincing chemistry between River and the Doctor and this episode wasn't convincing as start a cause of their romantic liasion.

Best character is actually River herself. Interesting back story and the only one who actually seems to care about something and have genuine flaws and strengths.

And this whole storyline just gets increasingly convoluted.

[SoupDragon]

"Rory and Amy's non-existent emotional reaction to losing their baby and being confronted by an adult child is silly"

Yes! Especially as they must realise that they never get her back.

[AitchTwoOh]

i know, that was a bit bonkers. kind of makes a nonsense of that big speech that she made to baby Mels, and also of the 'time can be re-written' biz. if it could be re-written that my firstborn would not be raised as a weapon by a woman wearing black lipstick and an eyepatch, i'd be searching time and space for her i think, not just kicking back and having adventures with giant dollies.

[MurielTheActor]

Yes it is convoluted and full of holes - agree about the lack of emotional content.
BUT personally I think all this speculating is actually pointless as SM can do what the hell he likes
This is the man who coined the 'wibbly wobbly timey wimey' phrase.
What a great get out!
He can add in characters we think we should have met (Mel), confuse the hell out of us with when River and the Dr met, knew each other, got killed, imprisoned etc and all we can do is sit back and bask in the sheer audacity of his imagination in the full knowledge that time is wibbly wobbly, it doesn't happen in a straight line and he can dip in and out of any day, year, century knowing that we will be amused, frightened and moved.
I don't give a fig that I can't work it out a slong as I get a couple of laughs out loud and a few gasps per episode I'm very happy

[Yahboosnubs]

On the other hand, Amy only knew her baby for, what, a few days?, and Rory held her about once, plus they didn't exactly have nine months to get used to the idea of having a baby. So the lack of emotional connection to her, especially with all the headfuck of her becoming River and OLDER than them, seems relatively reasonable to me. I do agree that having your tiny baby wrenched from you would be more upsetting than Amy seems to think though. She is looking very trim and her boobs don't seem to be leaking much, despite lack of baby....

[AitchTwoOh]

oh yes there is much room for denial, i think, however SM did actually start the episode with Amy looking upset about not having her baby after the whole summer, so it was uppermost in her mind then.

[SoupDragon]

It is a whole lot of fun speculating and trying to second guess things though :o