Doctor Who Series 6 part 2 - the ganger thread

[RustyBear]

Old thread's getting full, so here's a nice new acid-resistant one...

[StringOrNothing]

Yes we saw her regenerate from the little girl in the astronaut suit who shot the doctor - but we didn't see who into - presumably toddler Mels.

I think that's what we saw anyway.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I didnt think this was a great Dr Who episode - Dr Who should be exciting stories for the whole family, not confused complicated stuff.
I hope it is back to normal next week.

[HarrietJones]

The doctor said he couldn't regenerate as they were blocked( or something like that anyway.)

We wouldn't have seen River regenerate as then she wouldn't be Alex Kingston any more. They said she used all her regeneration's which is how she dies in the library.

[Ripeberry]

Hitler being in the cupboard is where he should have been in the first place so many years ago.

[RustyBear]

I think there was probably at least one other regeneration between the one we saw in the alley and the one which resulted in the Mels who was at school with Amy and Rory. That's assuming that regeneration took place in 1969 or soon after, as the girl wasn't much older, if at all, than the girl in the spacesuit. If Melody had regenerated to a toddler in 1969/70, she would have been too old to be at school with Rory and Amy (and obviously she must have been 'ageing' at a rate that appeared normal during childhood, or Rory and Amy would have noticed)

[Jix]

Ahh I have obviously missed some key episodes. Rusty Bear -- could "Mel" who was growing up with Amy and Rory have time travelled back as a toddler to be the girl in the space suit??
Stringornothing -- did the little girl regenerate into Alex Kingston then?

[StringOrNothing]

The little girl (who we assume was Melody Pond) regenerated, we didn't see what into - couldn't have been Alex Kingston, and as someone has just pointed out the timings are ??? for her to have become Mels, the Ponds' schoolfriend.

It was right at the very end of episode 2 I think.

[florenceuk]

Clever episode which I think confused DH and kids completely! Alex Kingston clearly having a ball. But I feel it smacks a bit of Star Wars the prequel and trying to fit the pieces together after the fact:

• how come River can't remember killing Doctor in spacesuit - and wouldn't the later River have tried to stop it at the time
  
• how come she didn't seem to remember being in the spacesuit or was she just being a really good actor
  
• if the reason she's imprisoned is that she killed the Doctor, how come in the story on the weeping angels she's helping out the monks (who helped create Melody the assassin in the first place to kill the doctor) and therefore earns a pardon - because presumably those who imprisoned her didn't agree with killing the doctor IYSWIM
  
• and in the last series, when the doctor is meant to have been erased from history, she wanders past Amy's wedding, whereas in a world without the doctor she wouldn't have existed at all (no doctor, no canoodling in the Tardis)
  
• She also seems to be able to influence the ageing process - can time lords choose to grow up (from toddler to woman) or go backwards, or indeed stay static (as Matt Smith presumably did over 200yrs)
  

Any views??

[Jix]

I think we need to invite the writers onto mumsnet.

[HarrietJones]

We asked MN to ask SM for a webchat last year. Shall we ask again?

[kando]

I'm even more confused than others on here. Love love love dr who, always have always will. But could someone explain: if River is Amy & Rory's child, how come she's a time lord? Or is she Amy and the Drs child? [sorry if that's so dim that I have offended those of you who have great knowledge of dr who!]

[StringOrNothing]

Oooh yes, a webchat with SM would be excellent - he's always value.

Kando, River is timelordish because she was conceived on the TARDIS in midflight.

[MugglesandLuna]

I loved the 'I was on my was to a Gay, Gypsy Bar Mitvah' line.

I am glad they didnt have too much Hitler in this episode, otherwise it would have felt a bit cheap, like the Winston Churchill/dalek episode.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

You see I didnt like that line Muggle - Dr who is supposed to be for families and even if it goes over a childs head its the sort of thing that they then store in their heads to bring out at an utterly inappropriate moment. They can save that sort of line for Torchwood which is def aimed at adults.

[muminlondon]

Loved that episode, love all of these story arcs. I prefer Matt Smith to David Tennant, but that might be due to direction or writing. I love the jokes. So much more of an intelligent family show than a kid's show.

Surely River/Melody 'kills' the doctor twice because there are two of them or even three if you count the ganger)? Also, the future River gives him all her energy for regeneration so she can't do it again but maybe he can. Not sure why she could regenerate after being shot and he couldn't though.

[kando]

Thanks SoN - I think I thought of that!!

[futurity]

Re: River using up regenerations: I thought the whole "timelord can only regenerate 13 times" had been debunked (is that the word?) in a throwaway comment in Sarah Jane Adventures? Therefore how can River have used them all up saving the Dr if there is now no limit? Confused !

[TeamDamon]

I don't get any of it....

[DamnDeDoubtance]

Does anyone else use Gallifrey Base? Just went on there to lurk and my anti-virus flagged up a malicious url for that site.

[MugglesandLuna]

Maybe because she isnt 100% timelord?

[Dylthan]

I don't think river does kill the doctor.

We see her in the astranout suit as a child but we don't actually see who is in the astranout suit that kills the doctor did we?

And the doctor can't die at the end of this series can he?

I think there is going to be a huge twist at the end.

[droves]

I think the girls in the space suit wasnt river/melody at all .

Anyone remember the doctors daughter ? Last she was seen off was flying off in a spaceship ..

Would make intresting twist if it was .

[stellarpunk]

- how come River can't remember killing Doctor in spacesuit - and wouldn't the later River have tried to stop it at the time

Well we don't know what exactly was in the space suit, there may be a twist here. River does say in a previous episode that it isn't her death that she is worried about, that there is a far worse day coming for her. Perhaps it is River as an adult and thus this a future version of herself.

- how come she didn't seem to remember being in the spacesuit or was she just being a really good actor

ditto

- if the reason she's imprisoned is that she killed the Doctor, how come in the story on the weeping angels she's helping out the monks (who helped create Melody the assassin in the first place to kill the doctor) and therefore earns a pardon - because presumably those who imprisoned her didn't agree with killing the doctor IYSWIM

Not sure I follow this, sorry.

- and in the last series, when the doctor is meant to have been erased from history, she wanders past Amy's wedding, whereas in a world without the doctor she wouldn't have existed at all (no doctor, no canoodling in the Tardis)

She may well have still existed because shes their child - they may well have always got together. But agreed this is the old 'Grandad paradox' wrapped up in another form.

- She also seems to be able to influence the ageing process - can time lords choose to grow up (from toddler to woman) or go backwards, or indeed stay static (as Matt Smith presumably did over 200yrs)

River isn't a time lady, she is human plus time lord. i.e she has a 'time head'. Old wisdom on the Doctor was that the time lords were sterile and they they were woven on giant looms (see the Cartmel Master Plan from the McCoy era).

[HarrietJones]

Not all monks are the same group